Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 10:01:39 -0400
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
Subject: aus-wx: RESEARCH: Tornadogenesis and Research Efforts
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Dean AL Sgarbossa asked the following:

>     Concerning your post explaining how a significantly small number of
mesocyclones are responsible for the spawning of tornadoes, I have a
question if I may ask? From the research undertaken with the operational
use of the Doppler radar (WSR-57, WSR-88D etc.) into the origins of
tornadoes, especially the data recorded during Project VORTEX and other
field operations undertaken by NSSL and Josh Wurman, have the researchers
found any other trace signatures associated to tornado vorticity? By this I
mean, has a distinguishable "mark" been observed or found other than the
pre-existing "hook-echo" accompanying supercellular storms? The reason why
I ask is that the extremely low figures of tornadoes spawned from a
supercell came as a shock to me. The figures in question: 20% to as low as
5% of supercellular storms produce tornadoes, is extremely low, so
obviously there must be some other mesoscale circulation/atmospheric
phenomena occurring that actually has a direct effect on tornado formation.
My question is as
> king whether the folks at NSSL or other independent laboratories or
Universities have observed, found or discovered a different process that
has yet to be studied, researched and tested. Since the atmospheric
processes surrounding thunderstorms is still widely unknown, obviously the
knowledge of such phenomena is limited. As we are learning more and more
about these storms, the true and direct cause of tornadoes I believe is not
going to be unmasked for a number of years, however, we may get extremely
close to it and not even realize it. A quote relating to this topic that I
seem to follow religiously is the as follows:

An excellent question!  I have yet to send to Jane a paper that Chuck and I
co-authored in 1979 in which we attempted to answer such a question by
laying out all we knew concerning supercellular tornadoes at the time. 
What we found was the common denominator seemed to be the development and
low-level manifestation of the Rear Flank Downdraft.  This downdraft seems
to play a key role in tornado formation.  Thus, much of our research today
is emphasizing the origins and characteristics of this downdraft.  I refer
you to a paper that Jane has posted titled "On the mesocyclone "dry
intrusion" and tornadogenesis".  This paper speaks to the fact that as
Chuck and I presented in the '79 paper, mesocyclones are not simply
rotating updrafts, they are analogues to the extratropical cyclone or low
pressure system on the polar front.

Is there anything else?  There is often seen a corresponding vorticity
maxima near the tornado but of opposite sign.  This is another clue which
is being pursued.  I won't go into detail here on that but I will see what
I can find for you that will do those ideas greater justice than I can
here.

BTW, the WSR=88D was the first operational Doppler Weather Radar.  The
WSR-57 was an S-band non-Doppler radar.  One of the worst problems we have
are "in situ" observations because of the extremely destructive forces on
the scene of tornadoes!  <S>

>  
> "If you haven't thought about the existence of
> something before it happens, you probably won't
> when it does!"
> 
> Chuck Doswell (19th AMS Conference on Severe
> Local Storms)

This speaks of situation awareness!  Another topic all its own!

Les 
> 


************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "clyve herbert" <mesof5 at iprimus.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado climatology
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 00:05:28 +1000
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Hi Leslie.
Very nice to see you active on  the list again. Yes i agree with your
description of "land spout" and "tornado", your explanation also gives a
clue to the sustaining of vorticity i.e. the updraft, which could be
described as the auxiliary engine of the process.
                                            many regards Clyve Herbert.
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie R. Lemon <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado climatology


> > I'm still a learner here. What is the difference between a tornado and a
> > landspout? Aren't they the same thing, and a waterspout is basically a
> > tornado over water?
>
> Because I wrote of these I will define them here.
> The term "landspout" was coined because of the similarity of this
*tornado*
> with the waterspout.  Both have their origins and maturity during the
> towering cumulus phase of the convection and without a preceding
> mesocyclone.  Both find their demise as the towering cumulus matures into
a
> thunderstorm and leads to the dissipation of the tornadic vortices.  This
> is in contrast to supercellular tornadoes.  Yes, they both are tornadoes.
>
> Les
>
>
> ************************
> Leslie R. Lemon
> Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
> Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
> E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Les Crossan" <les.crossan at virgin.net>
To: "aus-wx" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: RESEARCH: Weather Modification  and Tornadoes in particular.
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:47:43 +0100
Organization: Cosmic EuroCon
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<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Everybody - </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Some of you may have already got this thread if you 
are subscribed to uksciwx. However for the rest of you there's an article at the 
link below about someone thoerising disrupting tornadic activity with microwaves 
- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;- from what i've read the guy's a galah, just 
make sure you're not under the path of the 1 gigawatt microwave 
beam.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A 
href="http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0812/tornado.html">http://www.newscientist.com/nl/0812/tornado.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Imagine this respected scientific journal 
publishing this stuff.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Les (UK)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 16:03:48 -0400
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: STORM: Re Huntly Tornado - New Zealand
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John Gaul
NZ Thunderstorm Society wrote:

> It is obvious media people don't know what they are talking about.
> According to them there are only tornadoes and mini-tornadoes. I think
that
> the only difference to them is the fact that if they are not like the
> twisters that occur in Tornado Alley in the USA, they are smaller ones
> hence the prefix *mini* in front of the word tornado.

The funny thing is that the vast majority (> ~ 60%) of tornadoes that occur
even here in "Tornado Alley" are "weak" (winds 120 mph or less) and short
lived.  But you will almost never hear the description of these as "mini". 
It seems to me that Australian and New Zealand press define almost any
tornado outside the U.S. as a mini.  Crazy reasoning.

Les

************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Bill Webb" <billwebb at tpgi.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: ANY Advice appreciated
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 06:34:27 +1000
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Thanks Anthony - point well made.

ANY advice and/or links appreciated.

Bill,
Proserpine.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Anthony Cornelius <cyclone at bigpond.net.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 08:25 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Expert Advice appreciated


> Just read the title of what this said - I'm no expert!!!!!  But I
> thought I'd reply...sorry for the duplicate email, but I'd hate for
> people to think I am an expert when I'm simply just an amateur weather
> enthusiast!!!!


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Bill Webb" <billwebb at tpgi.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: AF CLIMATE
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 06:32:07 +1000
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<x-html>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Sam, from Bill in Proserpine Qld.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A quick comment.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm sure others on the list will comment, but it is 
my understanding that the trade winds on the Qld coast produce showers by two 
means, plus are enhanced by a third effect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>One is most certainly the orographic effect you 
mentioned.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The second is the "ridging" along the coast. Winds 
move more freely over water than land. When they encounter the coastline, they 
"pile up", and this causes uplift. Contrary to the effect of high pressure in 
the south of the continent, this increased pressure can actually produce 
rain.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The third factor for consideration is the alignment 
of the coast. Where I am, the alignment is almost NW/SE. Thus for us to get 
increased showers, the trades need to tend easterly. From about halfway between 
Proserpine and Bowen, to about halfway between Townsville and Ingham, the angle 
of the coast is such that the showers "blow straight past". Then, after Ingham, 
the coastline&nbsp;along the "wet tropical coast" tends more NNE, increasing the 
exposure to the trades. Check the rainfall data for various sites along the 
coast.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My 2c worth. I'd be interested in any 
comments.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bill</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A href="mailto:sclmacdonald at bigpond.com" 
  title=sclmacdonald at bigpond.com>macdonald</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
  href="mailto:aussie-weather at world.std.com" 
  title=aussie-weather at world.std.com>aussie-weather at world.std.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 13, 2000 10:48 
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> aus-wx: AF CLIMATE</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Hi All</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>As usual I'm late with my preparation for my assessment.&nbsp; AF 
  climate,&nbsp; South-eastern trade winds along the Queensland coast result in 
  some precipitation along a narrow coastal region.&nbsp; It is more conspicuous 
  in the winter months where the high mountains produce an orographic 
  effect.&nbsp; They cause moisture laden </DIV>
  <DIV>air-streams to rise, become saturated, and precipition results. Two 
  highest mountains in Queensland are located here, Mt Bartle Frere 1622m and 
  Bellenden Kerr.&nbsp; Some modest falls in winter are a feature of the AF 
  climate.&nbsp; It is located between Townsville and Cairns.&nbsp;&nbsp;Summer 
  rains can be very intense and heavy. Australia's highest rainfall is recorded 
  in this region at such places as Tully, annual rainfall of about 3750mm.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Sam</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
</x-html>
From: "bussie" <bussie at netc.net.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Rain
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 06:58:46 +1000
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Spot on. In the (arguably) best place in the world. Grin.

Bussy

----- Original Message -----
From: David Carroll <davidkc at nia.net.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Rain


> Bussie,
>
> Your at Rutherglen arent you.. My ex is in Albury.
>
> Dave
>
> > bussie wrote:
> >
> > Rain getting heavier here at present (40km west of Albury/Wodonga)
> >
> > Bussy (NE Victoria)
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>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:49:08 -0400
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado climatology
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
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Clyve Herbert. wrote:
> Very nice to see you active on  the list again. Yes I agree with your
> description of "land spout" and "tornado", your explanation also gives a
> clue to the sustaining of vorticity I.e. the updraft, which could be
> described as the auxiliary engine of the process.

Thank you very much!  Indeed, the updraft is the sustaining life blood or
engine of all atmospheric convection.  It drives the whole process by
releasing the CAPE, the "Convective Available Potential Energy" by
realizing that potential in the form of Kinetic energy.  The mesocyclone
vorticity of supercells is a manifestation of the deep layer differential
horizontal shear (vorticity) which is tilted into the vertical by the
updraft.  Then the tornado itself appears to be the manifestation of
vertical stretching and baroclinic sources.  If we could harness the the
instantaneous kinetic energy of a non severe thunderstorm, it would be
enough to provide electricity for 20,000 homes for one year.

Les
************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: Harald Richter <hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov>
Subject: aus-wx: Re: what is a tornado? - waterspout intensities (fwd)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com (Australian Severe Weather Association)
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:07:16 -0500 (CDT)
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Hi Robert,

I knew that someone would ask me this,  and the prize goes to
sunny Clayton (VIC). 

> > From Harald Richter
> >
> > One observation is this:  I have not yet heard 
> > of a waterspout that had the intensity of a F3/F4/F5-type tornado.
> 
> This may seem like a naive question, but if a waterspout is occurring over
> water, how do you rate it on the Fujita scale which is based on
> observational reports of damage to structures on land? 
> I mean if you didn't happen to have your Doppler radar or whatever looking
> at the waterspout at that moment to directly determine wind speeds, how
> can you be certain that it didn't attain an F4/F5 intensity over water,
> and then just decrease as it hit land, thus showing say F2 damage. 

As the F-scale is based on damage you can't use it on waterspouts
over open water.  I tried to express it by saying FN-TYPE tornadoes,
rather than FN tornado.  I think the common "feeling" is that 
waterspouts are significantly weaker than tornadoes.
This stems from limited observations of the wind speed itself,  
from landfalling spouts,  and possibly from some of Joe Golden's
work earlier on.  You can't be certain that some waterspouts
might reach F3-``TYPE'' intensity,  but I haven't heard any observation
pointing that way. 

Cheers,  Harald


-- 
-------------------------------------------
Harald Richter
NOAA/National Severe Storms Laboratory
1313 Halley Circle
Norman, OK 73069, U.S.A.
ph.:    (405) 366-0430
fax:    (405) 579-0808
email:  hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov
web:    http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/~hrichter
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 08:15:14 +1000
Subject: aus-wx: OFF TOPIC - meteorologists
From: "Mark Hardy" <mhardy at magna.com.au>
To: Weather Junkies <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
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List readers,
The Weather Company has a couple of job vacancies at the moment. One for an
experienced met. The other position is a trainee met position. If you have a
degree and would like to get into meteorology, then this is a good
opportunity. More details at:
http://www.theweather.com.au/positions.html

Thanks for your time, Mark
_____________________________________________________
Mark Hardy.
The Weather Company Pty. Ltd.
Level 2, 7 West Street, North Sydney 2060
Ph (02) 9955 7704. Fax (02) 9955 1536.
Mobile 0414 642 739
http://www.theweather.com.au
_____________________________________________________

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: Harald Richter <hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov>
Subject: aus-wx: RESEARCH: Tornadogenesis and Research Efforts
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com (Australian Severe Weather Association)
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:23:28 -0500 (CDT)
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Hi All:

Dean A. S. wrote:
> vorticity? By this I mean, has a distinguishable "mark" been observed or =
> found other than the pre-existing "hook-echo" accompanying supercellular =
> storms? The reason why I ask is that the extremely low figures of =
> tornadoes spawned from a supercell came as a shock to me. The figures in =
> question: 20% to as low as 5% of supercellular storms produce tornadoes, =
> is extremely low, so obviously there must be some other mesoscale =
> circulation/atmospheric phenomena occurring that actually has a direct =
> effect on tornado formation. My question is asking whether the folks at =

Yes, there is a current hypothesis out in the field regarding 
tornadogensis.  Paul Markowski (Uni. of OK) analysed VORTEX
mobile mesonet data and found that tornadic supercells tend to
have relatively buoyant RFD (rear flank downdraught) air.  
This air is likely to be re-ingested into the storm, hence
its buoyancy matters.  *** IF *** this hypothesis pans out
measurements of ground-level RFD buoyancy could help a lot
in answering which supercells will produce tornadoes, and 
which ones won't.

One caveat in my opinion is the relentless search for THE (ONE) 
mechanism that explains a fully nonlinear, fully four-dimensional
reality.  It is likely that there is no single mechanism that
will be sufficient as a tornadic/non-tornadic discriminator. 

Sweating in 40 C,  Harald

-- 
-------------------------------------------
Harald Richter
NOAA/National Severe Storms Laboratory
1313 Halley Circle
Norman, OK 73069, U.S.A.
ph.:    (405) 366-0430
fax:    (405) 579-0808
email:  hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov
web:    http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/~hrichter
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From: "MSC - Jane ONeill" <cadence at stormchasers.au.com>
To: "Aussie Weather" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: ASWA AGM; RESEARCH: Landspouts
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 08:24:11 +1000
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Dear all,

Firstly, re the AGM - I'd like to echo Anthony's sentiments (including the
bit about planes.....the 8.30 flight finally left Sydney at 9.20pm <sigh>)
It was a great weekend - even down to the 'black eye' I got playing cricket,
courtesy of a NSW fast bowler who shall remain unidentified until I get him
back at some later date! (it's not really black, but it's a bit hard to see
out of atm <g>). Meeting up with everyone was wonderful, the presentations
were excellent, food was good (but their was far too much of it<g>).  I'd
also like to echo Anthony's thanks to those who gave so much of their time
and their combined resources to ensure that the event was well run,
informative & enjoyable.  If you missed the AGM this year, you need to start
saving for next year!

ASWA has achieved more in its first 12 months than any other club that I've
been involved in & this is purely because the members of the group are so
passionately enthusiastic about their interest in weather (everyone talked
endlessly - there was always something being discussed, diagrams being drawn
in the sand & on the back of drinks coasters, arms being waved about whilst
describing something, batters being distracted by shouts of 'CUMULUS' just
at the crucial moment), and we have a keen desire (as a group, rather than
as individuals) to gain recognition for the contributions that ASWA is
making to meteorology in Australia (and elsewhere) through the various
Damage Assessment Programmes (both formal & informal), event reports, video
& audio information donated to the BoM, the spotting and reporting events in
real-time, the fostering of students at school, university, TAFE & the
training course...and the list goes on and will get longer.

Congratulations to everyone......

Secondly, re landspouts.  I am not willing to disagree with *all* of those
people far more learned than I regarding the definition of a tornado, be it
a supercell or a non-supercell tornado.  As far as I understand from my wide
& varied reading over the decades, a tornado is a tornado.  A landspout is a
tornado, a waterspout is a tornado, a tornado from a supercell is a tornado,
and a tornado from a non-supercell is a tornado.......

I am an amateur weather enthusiast, not a scientist with many years of
research under my belt.  I am not qualified to tell anyone anything other
than to give my personal opinion which has been gained only from my
understanding of what I have read, seen, discussed and experienced over a
large number of years.........and I still know so very, very little.  Read,
discuss, watch & experience, but make an effort to understand everything
around you........

Jane
---------------------------------------
Jane ONeill - Melbourne
cadence at stormchasers.au.com

Melbourne Storm Chasers
http://www.stormchasers.au.com

ASWA - Victoria
http://www.severeweather.asn.au
---------------------------------------

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: wbc at ozemail.com.au (Laurier Williams)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: FORECAST: First ECL?
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:44:08 GMT
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Sorry, should have been clearer. Blackheath, Blue Mountains, 1070m
asl, 100km west of Sydney NSW

Laurier


On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:51:12 +1000, "bussie" <bussie at netc.net.au>
wrote:

>Don't mean to be rude here as I haven't a map. Where is Blackheath?
>
>Bussy (NE Victoria)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Laurier Williams <wbc at ozemail.com.au>
>To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 5:07 PM
>Subject: Re: aus-wx: FORECAST: First ECL?
>
>
>> Both the EC and GASP are still going for a tongue of cold upper air up
>> the NSW ranges on Wednesday (sub 536 thickness), with the EC rapidly
>> developing an ECL east of Sydney 1004hPa, with a high of 1031 just
>> west of Tassie! GASP shows >5mm rain over all eastern NSW during this
>> time, so, it if all came true it would present an interesting scenario
>> for the NSW tablelands. I've just looked at the latest AVN (00z) and
>> it, too, supports the cold air intrusion, but forms the low off Gabo
>> thus keeping the flow SW over NSW with consequently less rain, and on
>> the west of the ranges. Definitely worth keeping an eye on.
>>
>> Things could also get interesting this evening as the cold pool,
>> currently in central western NSW drifts SE. 10mm or so of rain
>> reported from Coonamble, Wellington, Dubbo and Coonabarabran 9 to 3,
>> with max temps around 10 degrees, and down to 8 at 3pm. Currently just
>> under 6 degrees here at Blackheath with steady light rain.
>>
>> Laurier
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 11:08:45 +1000, Andrew Miskelly
>> <amiskelly at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> >Hi all,
>> >
>> >The latest Coastal Wind Warning for NSW suggests that we might get our
>> >first ECL (East Coast Low) of the winter during the early part of the
>> >week.
>> >
>> >This winter has been unususal in that - discounting the low in June that
>> >brought wide-spread snow - we haven't had an ECL yet!
>> >
>> >Here's hoping.
>> >
>> >Andrew.
>>
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>>  message.
>>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>>
>
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 08:04:39 +1000
Subject: aus-wx: OFF TOPIC - meteorologists
From: "Mark Hardy" <mhardy at theweather.com.au>
To: Weather Junkies <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

List readers,
The Weather Company has a couple of jobs available at the moment. One for an
experienced met. The other position is a trainee met position. If you have a
degree and would like to get into meteorology, then this is a good
opportunity. More details at:
http://www.theweather.com.au/positions.html

Thanks for your time, Mark
_____________________________________________________
Mark Hardy.
The Weather Company Pty. Ltd.
Level 2, 7 West Street, North Sydney 2060
Ph (02) 9955 7704. Fax (02) 9955 1536.
Mobile 0414 642 739
http://www.theweather.com.au
_____________________________________________________

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:28:41 -0400
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
Subject: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: ASWA AGM; RESEARCH: Landspouts
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
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Jane:

Here, here!!!  Well said!

Les

************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:31:45 -0400
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
Subject: aus-wx: RESEARCH: Tornadogenesis and Research Efforts
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
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Harald wrote:

> One caveat in my opinion is the relentless search for THE (ONE) 
> mechanism that explains a fully nonlinear, fully four-dimensional
> reality.  It is likely that there is no single mechanism that
> will be sufficient as a tornadic/non-tornadic discriminator. 

Great comments!  I fully agree!

les

************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Sender: nzts.nz at pop3.caverock.net.nz
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:04:15 +1200
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: John Gaul <nzts.nz at caverock.net.nz>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado climatology
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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>John Gaul
>NZ Thunderstorm Society wrote:
>
>> It is obvious media people don't know what they are talking about.
>> According to them there are only tornadoes and mini-tornadoes. I think
>that
>> the only difference to them is the fact that if they are not like the
>> twisters that occur in Tornado Alley in the USA, they are smaller ones
>> hence the prefix *mini* in front of the word tornado.
>
>The funny thing is that the vast majority (> ~ 60%) of tornadoes that occur
>even here in "Tornado Alley" are "weak" (winds 120 mph or less) and short
>lived.  But you will almost never hear the description of these as "mini". 
>It seems to me that Australian and New Zealand press define almost any
>tornado outside the U.S. as a mini.  Crazy reasoning.
>
>Les
>

Howdy Les,
Yes true 
I have been following your tornado discussion with interest.
The Huntly tornado was definitely F1 from the damage it did. Winds up to
150 kph so not really a major tornado BUT not a mini one as well.
Locally, the only tornado to cause damage here of any note in Christchurch
where I live on the South Island's east coast, was the Halswell Tornado of
Jan 19th 1982.  Winds up to 160km/h and $NZ3 million dollars worth of
damage. Rumours said that the funnel actually stopped over the local
swimming pool and sucked all the water out (like a huge elephant having a
drink) before moving on.!!!!
Unfortunately, I was away at the time so no photos/film apart from news
events of the storm.
My NZTS had no film in his camera



John Gaul
New Zealand Thunderstorm Society
>************************


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "bussie" <bussie at netc.net.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: FORECAST: First ECL?
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:56:20 +1000
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Grin. Bit too technical for me. I'm currently two feet above the ground on
my chair, height above sea level is about 200 metres (I think?). No where
near as high as you by the looks of it. Too cold up that high, it gets cool
enough here.

Bussy

----- Original Message -----
From: Laurier Williams <wbc at ozemail.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: FORECAST: First ECL?


> Sorry, should have been clearer. Blackheath, Blue Mountains, 1070m
> asl, 100km west of Sydney NSW
>
> Laurier
>
>
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:51:12 +1000, "bussie" <bussie at netc.net.au>
> wrote:
>
> >Don't mean to be rude here as I haven't a map. Where is Blackheath?
> >
> >Bussy (NE Victoria)
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Laurier Williams <wbc at ozemail.com.au>
> >To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 5:07 PM
> >Subject: Re: aus-wx: FORECAST: First ECL?
> >
> >
> >> Both the EC and GASP are still going for a tongue of cold upper air up
> >> the NSW ranges on Wednesday (sub 536 thickness), with the EC rapidly
> >> developing an ECL east of Sydney 1004hPa, with a high of 1031 just
> >> west of Tassie! GASP shows >5mm rain over all eastern NSW during this
> >> time, so, it if all came true it would present an interesting scenario
> >> for the NSW tablelands. I've just looked at the latest AVN (00z) and
> >> it, too, supports the cold air intrusion, but forms the low off Gabo
> >> thus keeping the flow SW over NSW with consequently less rain, and on
> >> the west of the ranges. Definitely worth keeping an eye on.
> >>
> >> Things could also get interesting this evening as the cold pool,
> >> currently in central western NSW drifts SE. 10mm or so of rain
> >> reported from Coonamble, Wellington, Dubbo and Coonabarabran 9 to 3,
> >> with max temps around 10 degrees, and down to 8 at 3pm. Currently just
> >> under 6 degrees here at Blackheath with steady light rain.
> >>
> >> Laurier
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 11:08:45 +1000, Andrew Miskelly
> >> <amiskelly at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi all,
> >> >
> >> >The latest Coastal Wind Warning for NSW suggests that we might get our
> >> >first ECL (East Coast Low) of the winter during the early part of the
> >> >week.
> >> >
> >> >This winter has been unususal in that - discounting the low in June
that
> >> >brought wide-spread snow - we haven't had an ECL yet!
> >> >
> >> >Here's hoping.
> >> >
> >> >Andrew.
> >>
> >>
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> >>  message.
>
>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >>
> >
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> > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
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>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:48:31 -0700
From: Lindsay Pearce <writer at lisp.com.au>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win16; I)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: WEATHER: Blackheath maximum and conditions
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Blackheath: NSW Central Tablelands, Monday 4:50pm

Currently 3 degrees. Fresh westerly winds, very light showers throughout
day with some ice (prisms?) falling at around 3pm when it was 3.5
degrees. Our max today was 5 degrees.

Does anyone have a good/reliable satpic (not loop) for eastern
Australia? I'd appreciate the link. 

Cheers,


Lindsay Pearce
PS: Might not get to snow chase now, I've got the dreaded lurgy that my
partner had for 9 days! :-( Hopefully, it will snow here, anyway.

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 17:12:37 +1000
From: Andrew Miskelly <amiskelly at ozemail.com.au>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: Blackheath maximum and conditions
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Lindsay,

http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/satimages/gmsd.jpg

This link (and it's associated archive) is sensational, great detail and
updated every hour with the image generally available about 20 mins
later.

cheers,

Andrew.

Lindsay Pearce wrote:
> 
> Blackheath: NSW Central Tablelands, Monday 4:50pm
> 
> Currently 3 degrees. Fresh westerly winds, very light showers throughout
> day with some ice (prisms?) falling at around 3pm when it was 3.5
> degrees. Our max today was 5 degrees.
> 
> Does anyone have a good/reliable satpic (not loop) for eastern
> Australia? I'd appreciate the link.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lindsay Pearce
> PS: Might not get to snow chase now, I've got the dreaded lurgy that my
> partner had for 9 days! :-( Hopefully, it will snow here, anyway.
> 
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-- 

--
Andrew Miskelly
Illawarra/Southern Tablelands, NSW
amiskelly at ozemail.com.au
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "bussie" <bussie at netc.net.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: Blackheath maximum and conditions
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 19:01:19 +1000
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This one too. Water vapour (I think).

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-time/shemi/images/xxwvgms5e.GIF

Bussy

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Miskelly <amiskelly at ozemail.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: Blackheath maximum and conditions


> Lindsay,
>
> http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/satimages/gmsd.jpg
>
> This link (and it's associated archive) is sensational, great detail and
> updated every hour with the image generally available about 20 mins
> later.
>
> cheers,
>
> Andrew.
>
> Lindsay Pearce wrote:
> >
> > Blackheath: NSW Central Tablelands, Monday 4:50pm
> >
> > Currently 3 degrees. Fresh westerly winds, very light showers throughout
> > day with some ice (prisms?) falling at around 3pm when it was 3.5
> > degrees. Our max today was 5 degrees.
> >
> > Does anyone have a good/reliable satpic (not loop) for eastern
> > Australia? I'd appreciate the link.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Lindsay Pearce
> > PS: Might not get to snow chase now, I've got the dreaded lurgy that my
> > partner had for 9 days! :-( Hopefully, it will snow here, anyway.
> >
> >  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
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> >  message.
> >  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
> --
>
> --
> Andrew Miskelly
> Illawarra/Southern Tablelands, NSW
> amiskelly at ozemail.com.au
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>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Dean Sgarbossa" <deansgar at alphalink.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: RESEARCH: Tornadogenesis and Research Efforts
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 19:29:05 +1000
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Hello Harald and Leslie,
    Harald, you have an irrefutable point there that I agree to. It is an
excellent point! The truth is that it is highly unlikely that only one
single mechanism is sufficient as a tornadic discriminator. However, how
about the effects on forecasting these phenomenon cause. Landspouts,
waterspouts, willy-willies all cannot be forecast for they work on
convection currents alone. Whereas a tornado can be forecast, granted the
use of radar and observations, 10 to 20 minutes before hand. Is this because
it was spawned from a highly organized convective cloud, being that of a
cumulonimbus incus, that has many observable key processes i.e. RFD,
rotation, helicity, wind shear, thermal shear, updraught/downdraught etc...
enabling it to self-sustain its formation? No offence to anybody by this but
it just seems awfully convenient to label weather phenomenon such as
landspouts, which main mechanism is convection, as a tornado when clearly a
tornado from a Cb is spawned from many, more complicated processes and
mechanisms, some very different to that of just convection. I would
appreciate your input/comments on this matter.

Yours sincerely
Dean AL Sgarbossa

-----Original Message-----
From: Leslie R. Lemon <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
To: INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Date: Monday, 14 August 2000 10:40
Subject: aus-wx: RESEARCH: Tornadogenesis and Research Efforts


>Harald wrote:
>
>> One caveat in my opinion is the relentless search for THE (ONE)
>> mechanism that explains a fully nonlinear, fully four-dimensional
>> reality.  It is likely that there is no single mechanism that
>> will be sufficient as a tornadic/non-tornadic discriminator.
>
>Great comments!  I fully agree!
>
>les
>
>************************
>Leslie R. Lemon
>Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
>Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
>E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Originating-IP: [203.109.142.135]
From: "Paul Graham" <v_notch at hotmail.com>
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: FORECAST: NSW snow
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:28:59 GMT
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2000 09:28:59.0692 (UTC) FILETIME=[13A056C0:01C005D2]
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Hi everyone, looking good for snow to low levels along the eastern side of 
the ranges on Wednesday night with strong southerlies and thickness getting 
down to around 536!!  Get your skis ready!
- Paul G.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Originating-IP: [203.109.142.135]
From: "Paul Graham" <v_notch at hotmail.com>
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: FORECAST: storms NSW/VIC for Tuesday
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:32:15 GMT
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Hello again everyone, looking like there could be some good storms about 
tomorrow with another sharp upper trough entering NSW & VIC.
- Paul G.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

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X-Originating-IP: [203.54.87.238]
From: "S G" <thunderday191 at hotmail.com>
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Rain in Adelaide
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 19:40:27 CST
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi guys,

I'm new to this meesage board but just thought I would report on Adelaide 
weather.  The northern edge of a not so strong front is crossing Adelaide 
now at around 7:30pm.  Moderate to occasionlly heavy falls of rain have 
occured in the last three quaters of an hour.  Don't know what it's like in 
the northern suburbs but here in the inner-southern suburbs there have been 
some good short falls of rain.  Around 10mm in the shower period just 
experienced, not sure about falls at Kent Town, last I heard was 2mm at 
7:00pm.

Didn't think this system would bring much rain but this morning when 
moisture levels were very high in an on-shore airstream my hopes were raised 
and have come true.  Hopefully there will be a few more good falls over the 
net 24hours.  A pity that the system approaching Perth isn't meant to effect 
Adelaide's weather much apart from increasing cloud later this week, damn 
high pressure systems have been intesifying too much over the south-east, 
maybe that will change, you never know.

By the way anyone who lives in Adelaide, don't you think this winter has 
been a bit dissapointing in terms of winter storms only one thunderstorm 
that reached into the city over about the last three months, which was last 
week.

I hope spring brings active weather, seeing as rainfall totals have been 
above average for most of the year it is looking promising.

By the way I am a very amature weather observer!!!
________________________________________________________________________
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:33:52 +1200
From: Gregg J Ward <gregg.ward at xtra.co.nz>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: STORM: Re Huntly Tornado - New Zealand
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

John,

There are storm chasers in the North Island i.e. me!!

We had a thunderstorm on the same morning as the Huntly tornado, around 5:00am,
which caused some major power surges between Palmerston North (where I live)
and Otaki.  In Palmerston North, one lightning strike temporarily took out the
city central lighting.


Gregg Ward

John Gaul wrote:

> Re Huntly tornado
>
> The tornado that moved through and twisted for 5kms through the towns of
> Huntly and Te Kauri in the northern Waikato at 7.30am Friday 11th was
> probably close to a F2.
> Lots of damage to roofs and reports of an actual shed with people in it
> being lifted up off the ground. A washing machine was lifted and carried 60
> metres.
> Unfortunately there are no storm chasers in the North Island and as I am
> based in Christchurch where we don't get storms, no footage of the actual
> tornado was made to my knowledge, mind you it was early in the morning.
>
> The tornadoes that we do get here in New Zealand are mainly on the west
> coast of the country, in this case, I wouldn't be surprised if there were
> waterspouts off the coast of Waikato. The upper level is very cold and the
> Tassy Sea temps are quite warm and this trough did really spawn out with
> some thunderstorm activity in western areas. The scenario did look very
> good on satellite imagery, thats why I predicted that we would get possibly
> some tornadoes in my email last night.
>
> John Gaul
> NZ Thunderstorm Society
>
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>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

--




Gregg Ward
Analyst/Programmer
E-Mail:   gregg.ward at xtra.co.nz
Phone:    64-6-354 2082



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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:06:14 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara <jdeguara at ihug.com.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: ASWA AGM & Congratulations are in Order for Some!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi all,

I have finally gathered my thoughts and settled back to normal.

I don't think there is much to say that hasn't already been covered except 
that we also enjoyed the videos which covered most states. There was some 
excellent and interesting footage hat covered a variety of weather 
situation. Thanks and well done.

The timing of the AGM was excellent. It was excellent to see everyone just 
meet up and fall into place like they had known eachother for years.

Well enough said.

Jimmy Deguara

At 07:34 PM 13/08/00 +1000, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>Well - what a fantastic AGM!  It really was a great experience being
>able to meet new people, and catch up with others from last years AGM,
>and last years TDU99 chase.
>
>I'm speaking for everyone here, in thanking everyone who put so much
>effort into organising the AGM.  I know for many, it meant a lot of
>effort and it cut into their social and recreational past-times - and
>that is certainly to be commended as it's simply is (for me) such a
>burst of pride to see the commitment from these people.
>
>Who are these people?
>
>Well, in particular I'd like to thank the main AGM organisers:
>
>Matthew Pearce
>Daniel Weatherhead
>James Harris
>Matthew Smith
>
>Even throughout the duration of the AGM, they were running around in the
>background to ensure that things went to plan and schedule.  From
>MC'ing, organising and overseeing agendas, organising venues and meals
>for everyone, organising AV equipment and more!  They were there
>somewhere, always willing to lend a hand and organse it.
>
>Of course, the list of helpers doesn't stop there!
>
>We of course had Jane O'Neill who gave invaluable input into the AGM
>organisation - not to mention Jimmy Deguara (current, and re-elected
>ASWA President) - who also gave input, and contributed greatly on the
>day of the AGM - in particular contacting other members on the day to
>ensure they remembered to attend!
>
>Geoffery Thurtell and John Sweatman were again also contributing, from
>both assisting in the organisation of the AGM, to Geoff helping out with
>the raffle ticket prizes, and other fun incentives and prizes on the day
>- again, something that made the entire day just that little extra fun
>and special, and assisted in making it run smoothly.  Michael Bath did
>an excellent job in taking down minutes for the entire meeting.
>
>Max King also did a wonderful job in organising food and drink for a
>very quickly decided ASWA BBQ on the Sunday to follow up the AGM as a
>last social event for everyone to get together and have fun.  On zero
>notice, he didn't hesitate to go out and buy food and drink - and even
>sacrificed what was a great game of cricket at Bicentenial Park!
>
>Of course, then there were the speakers!  Michael Scollay (Treasurer's
>Report), Jimmy Deguara (President's Report), Jane O'Neill (Victorian
>Report) and not to mention Clyve Herbert's extremely informative and
>thought-provoking presentation on tornadoes and in particular the
>Paraparap Tornado!
>
>I'm terrified I'm going to leave some people out here (and please
>forgive me if I do!!!), as there were so many people who helped in some
>way or form, even to those members who showed up and gave their support
>to their association!  We had five people all up fly into Sydney...from
>Ballina, Melbourne, Geelong and Brisbane.  Certainly great to see the
>enthusiasm there from those people in particular!
>
>I think that's it!  I believe there'll be a webpage put up about the
>AGM, with photos reports and minutes.  I know I've already made plans to
>attend the 2001 AGM once again!  It was well worth the trip down to
>Sydney.
>
>Congratulations to all in ASWA!!!  It's an organisation to be proud of,
>that's for sure!  As Jimmy summed up at the AGM, look how far we've come
>in such a small amount of time.  It's certainly something to be proud
>of!
>
>--
>Anthony Cornelius
>Queensland Coordinator of the Australian Severe Weather Association
>(ASWA)
>(07) 3390 4812
>14 Kinsella St
>Belmont, Brisbane
>QLD, 4153
>Please report severe thunderstorms on our Queensland severe thunderstorm
>reporting line on (07) 3390 4218 or by going to our homepage at
>http://www.severeweather.asn.au
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>  To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
>  with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
>  message.
>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

-----------------------------------------
Jimmy Deguara
Storm Chaser and Mathematics Teacher

from
Schofields, Sydney
NSW Australia

e-mail:jdeguara at ihug.com.au

Web Page with Michael Bath

Australian Severe Weather Home Page
http://www.australiasevereweather.com

President of the Australian Severe Weather Association
http://www.severeweather.asn.au

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:01:29 +0930
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Andrew Wall <astroman at chariot.net.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Rain in Adelaide
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi SG,

Welcome to the list.

The Northern Suburbs have had a few drops of rain, nothing really to get 
excited about, it was enough to wet the ground. I live in Paralowie, which 
is not too far from Parafield A/P.

As for this winter, yes it has been very poor. Only one real squall line 
which decided to die as it hit the coast, that was in the middle of July, 
heaps of lightning in it, but just didn't have enough in it to keep going. 
Last weeks thunderstorms were good although I had to work and missed the 
lot. I have a feeling this Spring/Summer will bring above average storms 
for us hopefully. The next possible chance of Thunderstorms may be in the 
last week of August and the first week in September, but this is still  bit 
too far out to be sure. If you get a chance goto 
http://sastorms.virtualave.net It has some Storm events that have happened 
in South Australia including a write up on December 8, 1999 Supercell which 
hit just outside Snowtown, when I have time I will be adding a few more 
reports from the Tornado in Robe to Tornadoes around the State plus a few 
more..

Welcome again and we hope you enjoy the posts on the list.

Andrew Wall







At 07:40 PM 8/14/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi guys,
>
>I'm new to this meesage board but just thought I would report on Adelaide 
>weather.  The northern edge of a not so strong front is crossing Adelaide 
>now at around 7:30pm.  Moderate to occasionlly heavy falls of rain have 
>occured in the last three quaters of an hour.  Don't know what it's like 
>in the northern suburbs but here in the inner-southern suburbs there have 
>been some good short falls of rain.  Around 10mm in the shower period just 
>experienced, not sure about falls at Kent Town, last I heard was 2mm at 7:00pm.
>
>Didn't think this system would bring much rain but this morning when 
>moisture levels were very high in an on-shore airstream my hopes were 
>raised and have come true.  Hopefully there will be a few more good falls 
>over the net 24hours.  A pity that the system approaching Perth isn't 
>meant to effect Adelaide's weather much apart from increasing cloud later 
>this week, damn high pressure systems have been intesifying too much over 
>the south-east, maybe that will change, you never know.
>
>By the way anyone who lives in Adelaide, don't you think this winter has 
>been a bit dissapointing in terms of winter storms only one thunderstorm 
>that reached into the city over about the last three months, which was 
>last week.
>
>I hope spring brings active weather, seeing as rainfall totals have been 
>above average for most of the year it is looking promising.
>
>By the way I am a very amature weather observer!!!
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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>-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

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From: "McDonald" <mcdonald at one.net.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Mini/weak tornadoes
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:39:02 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hey pples,

I'm glad the AGM went so well and i'm kicking myself for not getting up
there for it (i've already booked my flight for next year).

Just in relation to a comment made by Leslie.....

"The funny thing is that the vast majority (> ~ 60%) of tornadoes that occur
even here in "Tornado Alley" are "weak" (winds 120 mph or less)"

Let me see....120mph = 192km/h......I think that would sucessfully rearrange
the roof and maybe a wall or two of a house.  I think its amusing what
Leslie terms as "weak" and what I/we would consider weak here.  I was out
last week and again this weekend just gone doing a damage assessment of two
of the three tornadoes which touched down in Victoria last week.  I saw
damage to a far greater extent than anything I have ever seen and these
tornadoes probably peaked at 140km/h for the Sunbury Tornado and about
170km/h for the Trentham Tornado.  Prior to seeing this damage, the most
damage I had seen was a few braoken branches from a Land Gales event which
probably peaked at 90km/h.  I would've previously considered weak winds
(tornadic or not) up to 100km/h but after seeing the two tracks on the
weekend, knowing that they were only F0 or F1 tornadoes (relatively "weak"),
I dread to think what sort of damage an F2 or F3 tornado can do let alone an
F4 or an F5.

Anyway - just a few quick thoughts.

Keep watching the MSC page for the damage reports - coming soon to a screen
near you!!

Andrew McDonald

----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie R. Lemon <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: STORM: Re Huntly Tornado - New Zealand


> John Gaul
> NZ Thunderstorm Society wrote:
>
> > It is obvious media people don't know what they are talking about.
> > According to them there are only tornadoes and mini-tornadoes. I think
> that
> > the only difference to them is the fact that if they are not like the
> > twisters that occur in Tornado Alley in the USA, they are smaller ones
> > hence the prefix *mini* in front of the word tornado.
>
> The funny thing is that the vast majority (> ~ 60%) of tornadoes that
occur
> even here in "Tornado Alley" are "weak" (winds 120 mph or less) and short
> lived.  But you will almost never hear the description of these as "mini".
> It seems to me that Australian and New Zealand press define almost any
> tornado outside the U.S. as a mini.  Crazy reasoning.
>
> Les
>
> ************************
> Leslie R. Lemon
> Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
> Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
> E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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>

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