From: "John Woodbridge" To: Subject: RE: aus-wx: Melbourne Tornadoes Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 23:46:26 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hi Melbournites, Re the Ch 9 news footage (first segment) of the Sunbury tornado ripping up the suburbs... The camera work apears to have been taken from a vantage point perhaps on high ground. Does anyone know where this was taken and in particular, what direction the camera was pointing? Regards, John. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ X-Sender: jra at upnaway.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 22:43:51 +0800 To: aussie-weather at world.std.com From: Ira Fehlberg Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado hotspots Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Mandurah is our tornado capital here in WA and Australia I believe. Its had with a remarkable 12 tornadoes in the space of 35 years. This is directly on the town of Mandurah, not suburbs, thats right in downtown Mandurah. An area of 25 square k's (5k's x 5k's) not a big area. If you include the area just north and just south (i.e. Safety Bay, Shoalwater Bay, Rockingham and southern mandurah suburbs) the figure is 27! With 7 of these being either F-2 or F-3. Include Perth and its suburbs and the figure goes to 70, BOM confirmed tornadoes in 40 years. Not bad figures....... Ira Fehlberg At 18:38 9/08/00 +0800, you wrote: > >Mandurah, just to the south of Perth, would probably be the tornado hotspot >town in Australia, Barry Hanstrum from the WA Severe Weather Section has also >stated this before. > >Mandurah has had many tornadoes over the years, why it does they are not sure, >but it maybe something to do with how the coast is in that area as strong cold >fronts hit the coast. > >Jacob > >At 08:17 9/08/00 +1000, you wrote: >> >> Hello Michael and all, >> I thought I would just shed some light concerning the topic of the End of >> Year Chase and the frequency of tornadoes in various parts of Australia. >> Perhaps the greatest hotspot for tornado occurrences is the Sydney >> Metropolitan Area itself. According to Bart Geerts (University of Alabama and >> Huntsville) and Mosese Noke-Raico (Macquarie University), the Sydney CBD and >> outer suburbs has the highest tornado density in Australia. Within a half >> circle with a radius of 50km around Sydney, a total of 6 tornadoes per year >> per 23,000 square kilometres occurred for the period 1960-1992. This is >> approximately the same as the tornado density in the central Great Plains >> states of the USA and half the density in the tornado alley in Central >> Oklahoma (Davies-Jones, 1985). Hereafter, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth and >> Adelaide bare frequencies not lagging far behind that of Sydney. >> When you compare the frequency of tornado occurrences with that of the >> population density, the prominant reason why tornadoes are considered rare >> can be seen, (after Minor et al.) >> The Queensland Highlands has a tornado occurrence of 1.2 per 100,000 >> square kilometres. The population density for the same area is 0.3 per square >> kilometre. When the tornado occurrences are joined with the population >> density, the number of occurrences per 100,000 people is 4.0. This is quite >> an extraordinary figure considering the population. If you compare this with >> Oklahoma in the US, which has a tornado occurrence of 22.0 per 100,000 square >> kilometres and a population density of 11.2 per square kilometre, the >> occurrence of tornadoes once joined with the density of population comes out >> to 2.0. This is a remarkable figure considering, just proving the point that >> in some cases, Australia is the home of tornado occurrences equal to, if not >> greater than that of the US is some areas. >> Other areas of significance are the Western Australia Agricultural Belt >> and Goldfields which has an tornado occurrence of 0.65, a population of 0.27 >> per square kilometre and the number of occurrence per 100,000 people is 2.4; >> still, quite a large number considering the population.The Victorian Western >> Highlands have a tornado occurrence of 5.6 and a population density of 5.6, >> leaving a rather small number of tornado occurrences per 100,000 people: 1.0. >> Finally the New South Wales Slopes have a tornado occurrence of 1.1, >> population density of 1.3 and an occurrence per 100,000 persons of just 0.9. >> However, using the figures of past tornado occurrences, the population of >> this ever-growing country proves a major dilemma and investigators problem >> when attempting to determine the climatology of Australian tornadoes. The >> large growth in population over the past decade (not taking into >> consideration environmental factors), the increase in population is single >> handedly responsible for the increase in tornado reports and hence, the >> frequency. >> >> Cheers, >> Dean AL Sgarbossa >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Thompson >> <michaelt at ozemail.com.au> >> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com >> <aussie-weather at world.std.com> >> Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000 19:03 >> Subject: Re: aus-wx: End of Year Chase 2000 >> >> >I think that the SE Queensland area north from Brisbane to say Bundaberg is >> >one of Australia's tornado hotspots. Anybody have any idea on how many - >> >Anthony, James ?? >> > >> >Michael >> > >> > >> > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ X-Sender: carls at ford.ace-net.com.au Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 02:30:42 +1000 To: Aussie Weather List From: Carl Smith Subject: aus-wx: MEDIA: ASWA Media Liason Persons. Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hi All. A suggestion for discussion. It seems to me that the ASWA in every State could nominate a Media Liason Person to moniter weather event reporting in the media, and that the identity of this person by widely publicised on this list and elsewhere so that details of weather event reporting can be communicated and acted upon. This person would have the responsibility to follow up reporting anomolies with the media, being so persistent in doing so that eventually they will get the message. Each time a "MINI TORNADO" or a "MINI-CYCLONE", or other bit of stupid reporting is aired, the TV/Radio/Newspaper is contacted by phone, which is then followed up on paper with an 'Official' ASWA letter-head, and all such communications are logged and filed, along with details/copies of all responses. Such communications could also include references as to where the media can look up the correct terminology, such as on the BoM website. Another responsibility could also to be to notify them in writing in a positive fashion when they have handled a particular situation well, as positive reinforcement is one of the most useful tactics one can use to bring about change. A third responsibility could be to also contact the BoM in these cases and encourage them to also follow up on mis-reporting and to continue to communicate with the media about accurate reporting of weather events and the correct terminology to be used. Recent examples where such things could be dealt with include a positive reinforcement letter to Channel 9's Nightline for correctly using the term "tornado" several times (without putting "mini" in front of it), and to Channel 10 Sydney for doing the same in their report on the 5PM News earlier tonight (although they did once call it a "FREAK" tornado), whilst "The Panel" could receive a correctional letter for calling it a "mini-tornado" several times in a minute or so before airing some of the footage and giving us a belly laugh by highlighting the comments of the people who videoed it. Files can then be built up which could in moments of opportunity be utilised in the media to highlight just how frequently mis-reporting of weather events occurs. I am aware that some of you do these kind of things from time to time, but an organised approach would be far more effective in bringing about change than the occasional sporadic communication, and would also result in the media seeking ASWA viewpoints on weather events far more often than is currently the case. Anyway, just a suggestion for discussion. Regards, Carl (who is not an ASWA member, but would like to be if he could afford to do so) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Carl Smith. Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia. Email: carls at ace-net.com.au Internet: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/index.htm Current Cyclone information: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/current.htm Cyclone Tracking Maps: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/TCMaps.htm or: http://cyclones.50megs.com/maps/TCMaps.htm Tropical Cyclone Archives: http://cyclones.50megs.com/ Please note the new location of all archive type material and update your bookmarks and website links. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ X-Originating-IP: [203.109.250.98] From: "Paul Graham" To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Subject: Re: aus-wx: Can the ASWA please teach newsreaders? Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:46:34 GMT X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2000 09:46:34.0960 (UTC) FILETIME=[B48CB500:01C001E6] Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com I think a glossary on the ASWA site would be a good first step. - Paul. >From: "Michael Thompson" >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com >To: >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Can the ASWA please teach newsreaders? >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:47:24 +1000 >Received: from [199.172.62.20] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBB5A689B0041D820F3BBC7AC3E14405E0; Wed Aug 09 02:00:16 2000 >Received: (from daemon at localhost)by europe.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id >EAA14884for aussie-weather-outgoing; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 04:56:18 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from world.std.com (root at world-f.std.com [199.172.62.5])by >europe.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14404for >; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 04:52:14 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from mta04.mail.mel.aone.net.au (mta04.mail.au.uu.net >[203.2.192.84])by world.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08809for >; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 04:51:43 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from michaelt ([210.84.124.239]) by mta04.mail.mel.aone.net.au > with SMTP id ><20000809085142.MUMT7848.mta04.mail.mel.aone.net.au at michaelt> for >; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:51:42 +1000 >From aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Wed Aug 09 02:02:49 2000 >Message-ID: <004501c001df$549416e0$ef7c54d2 at ozemail> >References: <002101c001a2$47bef300$a77f36cb at daves> >Organization: >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 >Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com >Precedence: list > >The word mini almost pales compared to the local Wollongong WIN TV. During >a >recent waterspout footage they described it as a small cyclone ( I suppose >technically ? ) over water associated with summer thunderstorms. > >Funny thing is most true waterspouts occur from congestus that can be >electrical or in most cases not, also I would say winter - spring would be >the prime waterspout seasons, not summer. > >Michael > > > > Could the ASWA please send a definition sheet to all newsreaders and > > producers in Australia? They would need to explain gust, tornado, >cyclone, > > wind, hurricane, mini, storm, cloud, etc. I just saw a channel 10 news > > report that used all of those terms interchangably to descibe an F2 >tornado > > in Melbourne. Do they actually consult the dictionary? > > > > At least the BOM guy used the correct terminology. > > > > David Findlay > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail >to:majordomo at world.std.com > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of >your > > message. > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "Les Crossan" To: Subject: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: Castellanus Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:50:39 +0100 Organization: Cosmic EuroCon X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com ----- Original Message ----- From: MSC - Jane ONeill To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 2:48 AM Subject: RE: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: Pileus, pileus or pileus?????? > > Never mind pileus > What about castellanus ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Easy one this - ACCAS - pronounced "accas" Else cast - el -ann - us (: Les (UK) +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:15:58 +1000 From: Don White X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Subject: Re: aus-wx: latest photos Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Jimmy, Re the Wollongong storm - all the media reports I heard/saw and the on ground reports I had from a couple of people, plus the reports from ASWA members on this line - none of those mentioned /saw/heard anything other than small stuff. It would be good to know -perhaps NRMA could advise if there was hail damage to cars or maybe "tennis ball" hail is just another example of SRS - snow reporting syndrome!!! Don White Jimmy Deguara wrote: > > Michael, > > I have heard again of reports of tennis ball sized hail from a storm on > that day with damage to cars. I don't think this was just a dumping of a > lot of little stuff. I think there must have been a band of larger stuff. > Did anyone watch the media reports on it... The storm occurred on the > afternoon of the 1st August... > > Some of the updraughts were very powerful. But who knows > > Jimmy Deguara > > At 10:34 AM 9/08/00 +1000, you wrote: > >I work with 150 people from just about every Wollongong suburb and the best > >hailstone reported was a little over 1cm, but lots and lots of them. The BOM > >warning had hail large enough to damage cars at Corrimal, but I have a box > >of hailstones somebody brought in from Corrimal as a present and they are > >all 1cm or less. > > > >After several coups in the forecast department at work, with the cold fronts > >early this winter, this storm had dinged my reputation as I did predict it > >an hour or so out, but said it was very weak. Of course the ' very weak ' > >was the sole comment that everybody remembers me for. > > > >Michael > > > > > > > line photo, also the Wollongong (possible) supercell. I wonder if there > > > were more reports from this event as people heard of media reports of > > > tennis ball sized hail.... I wish someone could confirm or disprove it.. > > > > > > > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > > message. > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > ----------------------------------------- > Jimmy Deguara > Storm Chaser and Mathematics Teacher > > from > Schofields, Sydney > NSW Australia > > e-mail:jdeguara at ihug.com.au > > Web Page with Michael Bath > > Australian Severe Weather Home Page > http://www.australiasevereweather.com > > President of the Australian Severe Weather Association > http://www.severeweather.asn.au > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: Harald Richter Subject: aus-wx: tornado climatology To: aussie-weather at world.std.com (Australian Severe Weather Association) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:06:09 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hi Chasers: I have long been trying to get an idea what an Australian tornado frequency contor plot would look like. To my knowledge there is no such map in existence which is a pity. I have seen symbols plotted on an Australian map for individual severe/tornadic events which showed remarkable clustering of storms/tornadoes in certain areas. These areas turned out to be Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Brisbane, Perth etc. - you get the idea. Dean A. S. wrote: >> The Queensland Highlands has a tornado occurrence of 1.2 per 100,000 >> square kilometres. The population density for the same area is 0.3 per square >> kilometre. When the tornado occurrences are joined with the population >> density, the number of occurrences per 100,000 people is 4.0. Correcting for a population bias in tornado reports is not just a matter of normalising the population density to 1. If that was the case, a single event (1 per 100,000 km^2) caught by accident in an unpopulated area (0.0001 people per 100,000 km^2, say) would create a whopping fat frequency bullseye (10,000 tubes). I have a feeling that the Australian database suffers greatly from under-reporting in most areas, possibly to the extent that a meaningful contour map of tornado frequencies cannot be drawn. Given the population clustering along the coast a perhaps better attempt of compiling an Australian severe storms climatology is the use of remote sensing devices. Radar covers some areas and might be useful for those. Cloud top temperature (CCT) can be montitored from space with decent spatial and temporal continuity, but then you have the impossible problem of relating CCT to tornado frequencies. >> This is >> approximately the same as the tornado density in the central Great Plains >> states of the USA and half the density in the tornado alley in Central >> Oklahoma (Davies-Jones, 1985). The latest U.S. tornado climatology is work done by Harold Brooks at NSSL. Take a peek at http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/hazard/loops.html . Is Davies-Jones (1985) (journal?) a severe storms climo? >> According to Bart Geerts (University of Alabama and >> Huntsville) and Mosese Noke-Raico (Macquarie University), the Sydney CBD and >> outer suburbs has the highest tornado density in Australia. For the reason stated above that finding does not fill me with joy. Do Geerts and/or Noke-Raico have any of their work on the web/ in the literature? Here's a suggestion for ASWA: A collection of daily high-resolution IR/VIS images for every day between now and February would give us a decent idea regarding the storm distribution for *this* coming season. If this is done for several years we might be able to see an emerging pattern. Alternatively, a satellite archive might already allow us to do so. Oh yeah, my guess for the 'hot spot': NC/NE NSW and SC/SE QLD - high SSTs and strong flow associated with those lows down south which reaches up that far north. Cheers, Harald -- ------------------------------------------- Harald Richter NOAA/National Severe Storms Laboratory 1313 Halley Circle Norman, OK 73069, U.S.A. ph.: (405) 366-0430 fax: (405) 579-0808 email: hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov web: http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/~hrichter ------------------------------------------- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:28:56 +1000 From: Don White X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Subject: Re: aus-wx: MEDIA: ASWA Media Liason Persons. Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com In working for some media outlets in the area of weather consulting makes me realise the problems but I fear we all get too carried away by the use of mini. The first priority must be to ensure that weather is reported accurately as possible and not in a way that could mislead. The nature of the media in this country is to "beef up" a story and this is a far greater problem than the semantics discussed on this line at times. To me, the tornado in the Sunbury area appears to have been small and probably insiginificant by world standards.... so what should it have been called - a small / a weak or mini ??? After all that is what it was apparently. Sure, I dont like the word mini and would prefer small etc but let's not get our knickers in a knot of this when- I believe - there are more important things such as basic accuracy in reporting wetaher phenomena. Get the media to take more note of warnings - when was the last time a television station interupted programs to broadcast a severe storm warning?? Forget the F0 and F1 ideas - the public doesn't need to be educated to this level in this country and at this stage, such terms would be meaningless to most. Thanks for reading don White such as Carl Smith wrote: > > Hi All. > > A suggestion for discussion. > > It seems to me that the ASWA in every State could nominate a Media Liason > Person to moniter weather event reporting in the media, and that the > identity of this person by widely publicised on this list and elsewhere so > that details of weather event reporting can be communicated and acted upon. > > This person would have the responsibility to follow up reporting anomolies > with the media, being so persistent in doing so that eventually they will > get the message. > > Each time a "MINI TORNADO" or a "MINI-CYCLONE", or other bit of stupid > reporting is aired, the TV/Radio/Newspaper is contacted by phone, which is > then followed up on paper with an 'Official' ASWA letter-head, and all such > communications are logged and filed, along with details/copies of all > responses. Such communications could also include references as to where > the media can look up the correct terminology, such as on the BoM website. > > Another responsibility could also to be to notify them in writing in a > positive fashion when they have handled a particular situation well, as > positive reinforcement is one of the most useful tactics one can use to > bring about change. > > A third responsibility could be to also contact the BoM in these cases and > encourage them to also follow up on mis-reporting and to continue to > communicate with the media about accurate reporting of weather events and > the correct terminology to be used. > > Recent examples where such things could be dealt with include a positive > reinforcement letter to Channel 9's Nightline for correctly using the term > "tornado" several times (without putting "mini" in front of it), and to > Channel 10 Sydney for doing the same in their report on the 5PM News > earlier tonight (although they did once call it a "FREAK" tornado), whilst > "The Panel" could receive a correctional letter for calling it a > "mini-tornado" several times in a minute or so before airing some of the > footage and giving us a belly laugh by highlighting the comments of the > people who videoed it. > > Files can then be built up which could in moments of opportunity be > utilised in the media to highlight just how frequently mis-reporting of > weather events occurs. > > I am aware that some of you do these kind of things from time to time, but > an organised approach would be far more effective in bringing about change > than the occasional sporadic communication, and would also result in the > media seeking ASWA viewpoints on weather events far more often than is > currently the case. > > Anyway, just a suggestion for discussion. > > Regards, > Carl (who is not an ASWA member, but would like to be if he could afford to > do so) > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Carl Smith. > Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia. > Email: carls at ace-net.com.au > Internet: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/index.htm > Current Cyclone information: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/current.htm > Cyclone Tracking Maps: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/TCMaps.htm > or: http://cyclones.50megs.com/maps/TCMaps.htm > Tropical Cyclone Archives: http://cyclones.50megs.com/ > > Please note the new location of all archive type material and update your > bookmarks and website links. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ X-Originating-IP: [141.132.128.10] From: "Leslie Baxter" To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Subject: aus-wx: Oops wrong URL *LOL* Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 02:02:38 GMT X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2000 02:02:38.0291 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F03DA30:01C0026F] Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Try that! Well I have a pic for some of you, of a winter Cb http://www.geocities.com/mister_t1000/storm/storm_1.jpg and this is the Ballarat Storm watcher; me. http://www.geocities.com/mister_t1000/storm/thestormwatcher.htm Les ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: wbc at ozemail.com.au (Laurier Williams) To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Subject: Re: aus-wx: MEDIA: ASWA Media Liason Persons. Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:57:12 GMT X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by europe.std.com id CBD20504 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Good suggestion, Carl I think ASWA needs to see this as a continuing job. My experience of reporters is that they were motoring specialists last week and running the police rounds desk the week before, so there is a constant throughput. I wouldn't wait until the mistake is made, either. The larger media news organisations have quite substantial Editorial Policies, parts of which are designed to stop the switchboard lighting up with pedants pointing out that shouldn't have pronounced "envelope" as "onvelope", etc. If the worst excesses of major media misuse of terms could be stamped on by getting editorial support, it would be a big step in the right direction. Laurier On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 02:30:42 +1000, Carl Smith wrote: >Hi All. > >A suggestion for discussion. > >It seems to me that the ASWA in every State could nominate a Media Liason >Person to moniter weather event reporting in the media, and that the >identity of this person by widely publicised on this list and elsewhere so >that details of weather event reporting can be communicated and acted upon. > >This person would have the responsibility to follow up reporting anomolies >with the media, being so persistent in doing so that eventually they will >get the message. > >Each time a "MINI TORNADO" or a "MINI-CYCLONE", or other bit of stupid >reporting is aired, the TV/Radio/Newspaper is contacted by phone, which is >then followed up on paper with an 'Official' ASWA letter-head, and all such >communications are logged and filed, along with details/copies of all >responses. Such communications could also include references as to where >the media can look up the correct terminology, such as on the BoM website. > >Another responsibility could also to be to notify them in writing in a >positive fashion when they have handled a particular situation well, as >positive reinforcement is one of the most useful tactics one can use to >bring about change. > >A third responsibility could be to also contact the BoM in these cases and >encourage them to also follow up on mis-reporting and to continue to >communicate with the media about accurate reporting of weather events and >the correct terminology to be used. > >Recent examples where such things could be dealt with include a positive >reinforcement letter to Channel 9's Nightline for correctly using the term >"tornado" several times (without putting "mini" in front of it), and to >Channel 10 Sydney for doing the same in their report on the 5PM News >earlier tonight (although they did once call it a "FREAK" tornado), whilst >"The Panel" could receive a correctional letter for calling it a >"mini-tornado" several times in a minute or so before airing some of the >footage and giving us a belly laugh by highlighting the comments of the >people who videoed it. > >Files can then be built up which could in moments of opportunity be >utilised in the media to highlight just how frequently mis-reporting of >weather events occurs. > >I am aware that some of you do these kind of things from time to time, but >an organised approach would be far more effective in bringing about change >than the occasional sporadic communication, and would also result in the >media seeking ASWA viewpoints on weather events far more often than is >currently the case. > >Anyway, just a suggestion for discussion. > >Regards, >Carl (who is not an ASWA member, but would like to be if he could afford to >do so) > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Carl Smith. >Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia. >Email: carls at ace-net.com.au >Internet: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/index.htm >Current Cyclone information: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/current.htm >Cyclone Tracking Maps: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/TCMaps.htm > or: http://cyclones.50megs.com/maps/TCMaps.htm >Tropical Cyclone Archives: http://cyclones.50megs.com/ > >Please note the new location of all archive type material and update your >bookmarks and website links. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ X-Originating-IP: [134.178.30.65] From: "hamish ramsay" To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Subject: aus-wx: Sunbury tornado spawned by supercell Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:32:24 GMT X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2000 07:32:24.0981 (UTC) FILETIME=[20CD2450:01C0029D] Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hi all, we have just been looking at Doppler images from the Sunbury storm here at the BOM training school. It just so happened that the experimental 5cm Doppler out at Broadmeadows was in action at the same time which has provided some excellent information about the storm stucture. The refelectivity at the time of the tornado shows a characteristic hook echo, while the storm relative velocities show good rotation in the main updraft for period of about 50 minutes. This suggests that the storm was in fact a supercell, not a multi-cell. This was somewhat surprising considering the low-mid level shear was not terribly strong in the period leading up to the event. Look forward to hearing more about it at the next ASWA meeting in September. Cheers, Hamish. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "Phil Smith" To: Subject: Re: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: Castellanus Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:06:52 +0800 Organization: Doctor Disk X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Probably my sick mind needs help, but when I see the word I can't help thinking of the castle's bum! Phil <>< Phil Smith Director Doctor Disk Limited Unit B, 4th Floor, Imperial Heights Belair Gardens, Shatin, NT HONG KONG S.A.R. People's Republic of China Phone +852 2646 4672 Fax +852 2637 4006 E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk Home e-mail: drdisk at hktrade.com Web: http://www.drdisk.com.hk Typhoon Information: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Crossan" To: Sent: Thursday, 10 August 2000 00:50 Subject: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: Castellanus > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MSC - Jane ONeill > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 2:48 AM > Subject: RE: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: Pileus, pileus or pileus?????? > > > > > > Never mind pileus > > What about castellanus ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? > > Easy one this - ACCAS - pronounced "accas" > > Else cast - el -ann - us > > (: > > Les (UK) > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "The Weather Co." To: "Maillist Weather doods" Subject: Fw: aus-wx: latest photos Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:44:54 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Jimmy, I also happened to be in Wollongong on 1/8/00 during the storms. I only saw tiny pea-sized hail, but there was plenty of it. It covered the roadside between about Corrimal and Woonona in a balnket of white, small stones. There was plenty of lightning and I actually chased the storm as it moved towards the coast and off the beach at Bulli. Didn't see any large hail and nobody I know who was around those areas saw any either. Hope that helps Tracey Malmborg ____________________ The Weather Company Level 2, 7 West Street North Sydney 2060 Phone: (02) 9955 7704 Fax: (02) 9955 1536 twc at theweather.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: Don White To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 7:15 PM Subject: Re: aus-wx: latest photos > Jimmy, > Re the Wollongong storm - all the media reports I heard/saw and the on > ground reports I had from a couple of people, plus the reports from ASWA > members on this line - none of those mentioned /saw/heard anything other > than small stuff. It would be good to know -perhaps NRMA could advise if > there was hail damage to cars or maybe "tennis ball" hail is just > another example of SRS - snow reporting syndrome!!! > Don White > > Jimmy Deguara wrote: > > > > Michael, > > > > I have heard again of reports of tennis ball sized hail from a storm on > > that day with damage to cars. I don't think this was just a dumping of a > > lot of little stuff. I think there must have been a band of larger stuff. > > Did anyone watch the media reports on it... The storm occurred on the > > afternoon of the 1st August... > > > > Some of the updraughts were very powerful. But who knows > > > > Jimmy Deguara > > > > At 10:34 AM 9/08/00 +1000, you wrote: > > >I work with 150 people from just about every Wollongong suburb and the best > > >hailstone reported was a little over 1cm, but lots and lots of them. The BOM > > >warning had hail large enough to damage cars at Corrimal, but I have a box > > >of hailstones somebody brought in from Corrimal as a present and they are > > >all 1cm or less. > > > > > >After several coups in the forecast department at work, with the cold fronts > > >early this winter, this storm had dinged my reputation as I did predict it > > >an hour or so out, but said it was very weak. Of course the ' very weak ' > > >was the sole comment that everybody remembers me for. > > > > > >Michael > > > > > > > > > > line photo, also the Wollongong (possible) supercell. I wonder if there > > > > were more reports from this event as people heard of media reports of > > > > tennis ball sized hail.... I wish someone could confirm or disprove it.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > > > message. > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > Jimmy Deguara > > Storm Chaser and Mathematics Teacher > > > > from > > Schofields, Sydney > > NSW Australia > > > > e-mail:jdeguara at ihug.com.au > > > > Web Page with Michael Bath > > > > Australian Severe Weather Home Page > > http://www.australiasevereweather.com > > > > President of the Australian Severe Weather Association > > http://www.severeweather.asn.au > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > > message. > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "bussie" To: Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado hotspots Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:59:01 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Perhaps we do get more than America as stated, as we have a low population and a lot of touchdowns would be in isolated parts of the country that no one ever knows about? Bussy (NE Vic) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ira Fehlberg To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 12:43 AM Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado hotspots > > Mandurah is our tornado capital here in WA and Australia I believe. Its had > with a remarkable 12 tornadoes in the space of 35 years. This is directly > on the town of Mandurah, not suburbs, thats right in downtown Mandurah. An > area of 25 square k's (5k's x 5k's) not a big area. If you include the area > just north and just south (i.e. Safety Bay, Shoalwater Bay, Rockingham and > southern mandurah suburbs) the figure is 27! With 7 of these being either > F-2 or F-3. Include Perth and its suburbs and the figure goes to 70, BOM > confirmed tornadoes in 40 years. Not bad figures....... > > Ira Fehlberg > > > At 18:38 9/08/00 +0800, you wrote: > > > >Mandurah, just to the south of Perth, would probably be the tornado hotspot > >town in Australia, Barry Hanstrum from the WA Severe Weather Section has also > >stated this before. > > > >Mandurah has had many tornadoes over the years, why it does they are not > sure, > >but it maybe something to do with how the coast is in that area as strong > cold > >fronts hit the coast. > > > >Jacob > > > >At 08:17 9/08/00 +1000, you wrote: > >> > >> Hello Michael and all, > >> I thought I would just shed some light concerning the topic of the > End of > >> Year Chase and the frequency of tornadoes in various parts of Australia. > >> Perhaps the greatest hotspot for tornado occurrences is the Sydney > >> Metropolitan Area itself. According to Bart Geerts (University of > Alabama and > >> Huntsville) and Mosese Noke-Raico (Macquarie University), the Sydney CBD > and > >> outer suburbs has the highest tornado density in Australia. Within a half > >> circle with a radius of 50km around Sydney, a total of 6 tornadoes per year > >> per 23,000 square kilometres occurred for the period 1960-1992. This is > >> approximately the same as the tornado density in the central Great Plains > >> states of the USA and half the density in the tornado alley in Central > >> Oklahoma (Davies-Jones, 1985). Hereafter, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth and > >> Adelaide bare frequencies not lagging far behind that of Sydney. > >> When you compare the frequency of tornado occurrences with that of the > >> population density, the prominant reason why tornadoes are considered rare > >> can be seen, (after Minor et al.) > >> The Queensland Highlands has a tornado occurrence of 1.2 per 100,000 > >> square kilometres. The population density for the same area is 0.3 per > square > >> kilometre. When the tornado occurrences are joined with the population > >> density, the number of occurrences per 100,000 people is 4.0. This is quite > >> an extraordinary figure considering the population. If you compare this > with > >> Oklahoma in the US, which has a tornado occurrence of 22.0 per 100,000 > square > >> kilometres and a population density of 11.2 per square kilometre, the > >> occurrence of tornadoes once joined with the density of population comes > out > >> to 2.0. This is a remarkable figure considering, just proving the point > that > >> in some cases, Australia is the home of tornado occurrences equal to, if > not > >> greater than that of the US is some areas. > >> Other areas of significance are the Western Australia Agricultural Belt > >> and Goldfields which has an tornado occurrence of 0.65, a population of > 0.27 > >> per square kilometre and the number of occurrence per 100,000 people is > 2.4; > >> still, quite a large number considering the population.The Victorian > Western > >> Highlands have a tornado occurrence of 5.6 and a population density of 5.6, > >> leaving a rather small number of tornado occurrences per 100,000 people: > 1.0. > >> Finally the New South Wales Slopes have a tornado occurrence of 1.1, > >> population density of 1.3 and an occurrence per 100,000 persons of just > 0.9. > >> However, using the figures of past tornado occurrences, the > population of > >> this ever-growing country proves a major dilemma and investigators problem > >> when attempting to determine the climatology of Australian tornadoes. The > >> large growth in population over the past decade (not taking into > >> consideration environmental factors), the increase in population is single > >> handedly responsible for the increase in tornado reports and hence, the > >> frequency. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Dean AL Sgarbossa > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Michael Thompson > >> <michaelt at ozemail.com.au> > >> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com > >> <aussie-weather at world.std.com> > >> Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000 19:03 > >> Subject: Re: aus-wx: End of Year Chase 2000 > >> > >> >I think that the SE Queensland area north from Brisbane to say > Bundaberg is > >> >one of Australia's tornado hotspots. Anybody have any idea on how many - > >> >Anthony, James ?? > >> > > >> >Michael > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > > message. > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "David Findlay" To: Subject: RE: aus-wx: WEATHER DATA: All bom registered user data available free; was STORMS: Vic storms satpics! Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:35:07 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com >I've just done a quick check on satpix, radar, models and data, and >it's true -- this id/pw work with them all. Not any more. I just had a try but it doesn't work now! Maybe BOM cut it off. David Findlay +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ X-Authentication-Warning: neumann.maths.monash.edu.au: robert owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:12:01 +1000 (EST) From: Robert Goler X-Sender: robert at neumann.maths.monash.edu.au To: Aussie-wx Subject: aus-wx: OUTLOOK: Do it yourself - Fog & low cloud forecast for Melbourne Airport on 'net Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hi all I thought I'd just mention the following website which enables one to predict the chance of fog and low cloud at Melbourne Airport based on a few input parameters. http://www.maths.monash.edu.au/~robert/Weather/melbaptcldfog.html This actually started with Luke Garde who did work experience at the BoM. He came across an equation that could predict fog at Melb Airport, and he brought this to my attention at the last Victorian ASWA meeting. I contacted Harvey Stern at BoM who developed this equation, and he sent me his paper regarding this. I was then abled to produce a website where the user could input the necessary data, and the equation would be solved to output the chance of fog. I showed this to Harvey, who then sent me a .html file which had been developed to do the same job, but had a much better layout, and in addition, gave a prediction for low cloud as well. So, this is the file that the link is to. However, I have added the links on this page to the necessary synoptic chart and a map of Australia so you can see where the places are. Just a few things about the output. Points numbered 10-13 give the synoptic description ie wind direction (10); wind speed (12) in terms of light, weak, moderate and strong; flow curvature (11) cyclonic/anticyclonic; the classification of this synoptic situation (13) in which there are 50 such types depending on the wind speed/direction/curvature. All of this data is determined from the MSL pressure inputs. Numbers 14 and 15 give the precentage of low cloud and fog respectively, and is where the month, temperature and dewpoints come in. The last 4 points is just a summary of the input information and aren't really interesting. (16) gives the pressure difference between Melbourne and Forrest, (17) the pressure difference between Gabo Island and Mt Gambier, (18) the pressure difference between Hay and Smithton and finally, (19) the strengh which is just a number version of (12). One final thing to note is that although the equation has been set up for Melbourne Airport, it MAY be applied to other areas of Melbourne. Also, since Melbourne airport is situated in a sort of least fog prone area, the incidence of fog in other locales may be higher. So, I guess like any new toy, the only way to find out just what this can do is to play! Cheers -- Robert A. Goler E-mail robert at mail.maths.monash.edu.au http://www.maths.monash.edu.au/~robert/ Department of Mathematics and Statistics Monash University Clayton, Vic 3800 Australia -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "Nick Sykes" To: Subject: aus-wx: STORM:Sunbury Tornado Satellite Images Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:22:26 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hey All Well what a day we had in Melbourne yesterday. I was going absolutly physco, which comes with the usual weird looks from neighbours and freinds. I am beeped that my car is broken down atm as I would have chased for sure, the whole day had that "oh yeah" look. Well I have an archive of the Navy Satellite Picture gmsd at http://members.xoom.com/nsykes/searchive/august2000/august8/searchive.htm for yesterdays action, starts getting interesting about 2.24pm. Well a lot quiet here today with a fresh NW wind blowing, waiting for the winds to swing more south westerly and draw up some colder air. Nick Sykes Location (Melbourne, Clayton South): http://map4.whereis.com.au/telmap/map/map14023.gif Webpage: SE Australia Satellite Images: http://seaustraliasatpics.virtualave.net/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "Steve Summers" To: Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER DATA: All bom registered user data available free; was STORMS: Vic storms satpics! Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:30:07 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com ----- Original Message ----- From: David Findlay To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 8:35 AM Subject: RE: aus-wx: WEATHER DATA: Sorry I put my foot in my mouth. Sorry guys I let the cat out of the bag. Rang the person concerned with upgrading the Basic Product Set as I want to put some of the data on my weather page and happened to mention that it was freely available at this time using 'student' etc. They mentioned words like "breach of security" etc and I take it they have shut the gate. By the way I've been told by those in the know that this info will NOT be available until at least NOV. Cheers Steve > >I've just done a quick check on satpix, radar, models and data, and > >it's true -- this id/pw work with them all. > > Not any more. I just had a try but it doesn't work now! Maybe BOM cut it > off. > > David Findlay > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "Nick Sykes" To: Subject: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: Chaser Locations/Storm Locations etc Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:57:14 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hey all I have noticed lately that there has been confusion over where storms, chasers, obs etc have been located. I think it would be a good idea if people could attach a location map to where they are or where action has been etc. I think Jane brought this up in an earlier e-mail and I think it's a ripper idea. Two sites for generating maps are Auslig Place Name Search - http://www.auslig.gov.au/mapping/names/names.htm To add the location of this map right click on the image and add it to your favourites or bookmarks (what looks like a weird url will come up, ignore this). Name it what ever you want. Then to copy url of the bookmark location, goto the properties of that bookmark. Then simply paste it into your e-mail. Where Is http://www.whereis.com.au/ you may want to zoom out a bit To add the location of this map right click on the image and add it to your favourites or bookmarks (it will say click here for centre as the name, ignore this). Name it what ever you want, then to copy url of the bookmark location, goto the properties of that bookmark. Then simply paste it into your e-mail. Here is the location of Sunbury btw http://map4.whereis.com.au/telmap/map/map12605.gif Whereis http://www.auslig.gov.au/cgi-bin/col250?sj5403C31077054 Auslig If you have any trouble with this let be know and I will place more detailed instructions online. Nick Sykes Location (Melbourne, Clayton South): http://map4.whereis.com.au/telmap/map/map14023.gif Webpage: SE Australia Satellite Images: http://seaustraliasatpics.virtualave.net/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:16:40 +1000 From: Keith Barnett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Subject: Re: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: Pileus, pileus or pileus?????? Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com They have trouble in Russian too, don't tell a Russian music lover that one of his country's most famous composers was Rimsky-KorSAHkoff... I still stick with 'pi-LAY-us', americanisms or otherwise. John Gaul wrote: > > Never mind pileus > What about castellanus ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? > > A number of us from around the country have been discussing the > pronounciation of the word PILEUS for a long time, so before I get into the > normal summer conversations that I have with severe-wx at the BoM which > usually goes " there was pileus at about 18,000' " " oh, you mean pileus " > (and their pronounciation depends on who you are talking to) I thought I'd > get it worked out now. > > So far we have come up with the following phonetic pronounciations.... (and > as I don't have a keyboard that will display long & short vowels & emphases > I hope you can work out what I'm getting at) Double capitals show both > emphasis and long vowels, gaps show syllables. > > PS: warn the family before they find you sitting there repeating these > words to your computer > pill AA us > > pIIle EEus > > pillius > > Thanx for yor help and I hOp that yor familEE dusnt larf at yoo too mutch. > > JAAn > -------------------------------- > Jane ONeill > cadence at stormchasers.au.com > > Melbourne Storm Chasers > http://www.stormchasers.au.com > > Check out the MSC Cafe at > http://www.stormchasers.au.com/forecasting.htm > > ASWA - Victoria > http://www.severeweather.asn.au > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "Nick Sykes" To: Subject: Re: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: Chaser Locations/Storm Locations etc Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:23:21 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hey All Well my e-mail has finally made it to the list, sent it to days ago. I have had major problems sending e-mail the last 2 days, but it seemed to be working now. I have now learnt that the maps generated by http://www.whereis.com.au/ are stored temporarily, therefore you will not be able to link directly to them. Nick Sykes Location (Melbourne, Clayton South) http://seaustraliasatpics.virtualave.net/mylocation.gif Webpage: SE Australia Satellite Images: http://seaustraliasatpics.virtualave.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Sykes" To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 5:13 PM Subject: aus-wx: OFFTOPIC: Chaser Locations/Storm Locations etc > > Hey all > > > > I have noticed lately that there has been confusion over where storms, > > chasers, obs etc have been located. I think it would be a good idea if > > people could attach a location map to where they are or where action has > > been etc. I think Jane brought this up in an earlier e-mail and I think > it's > > a ripper idea. > > > > Two sites for generating maps are > > > > Auslig Place Name Search - > http://www.auslig.gov.au/mapping/names/names.htm > > > > To add the location of this map right click on the image and add it to > your > > favourites or bookmarks (what looks like a weird url will come up, ignore > > this). Name it what ever you want. Then to copy url of the bookmark > > location, goto the properties of that bookmark. Then simply paste it into > > your e-mail. > > > > > > Where Is http://www.whereis.com.au/ you may want to zoom out a bit > > > > To add the location of this map right click on the image and add it to > your > > favourites or bookmarks (it will say click here for centre as the name, > > ignore this). Name > > it what ever you want, then to copy url of the bookmark location, goto the > > properties of that bookmark. Then simply paste it into your e-mail. > > > > > > Here is the location of Sunbury btw > > > > http://map4.whereis.com.au/telmap/map/map12605.gif Whereis > > > > http://www.auslig.gov.au/cgi-bin/col250?sj5403C31077054 Auslig > > > > > > If you have any trouble with this let be know and I will place more > detailed > > instructions online. > > > > Nick Sykes > > > > Location (Melbourne, Clayton South): > > http://map4.whereis.com.au/telmap/map/map14023.gif > > Webpage: SE Australia Satellite Images: > > http://seaustraliasatpics.virtualave.net/ > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:23:36 +1000 From: Anthony Cornelius X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado climatology Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Allen 1980 - has a normalised tornado frequency map from 1950-1959 - however it's heavily biased to the population corridors of the country. Harald Richter wrote: > > Hi Chasers: > > I have long been trying to get an idea what an Australian > tornado frequency contor plot would look like. To my > knowledge there is no such map in existence which is > a pity. I have seen symbols plotted on an Australian map > for individual severe/tornadic events which showed remarkable clustering > of storms/tornadoes in certain areas. These areas turned > out to be Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Brisbane, Perth > etc. - you get the idea. > > Dean A. S. wrote: > >> The Queensland Highlands has a tornado occurrence of 1.2 per 100,000 > >> square kilometres. The population density for the same area is 0.3 per square > >> kilometre. When the tornado occurrences are joined with the population > >> density, the number of occurrences per 100,000 people is 4.0. > > Correcting for a population bias in tornado reports is not just a matter of > normalising the population density to 1. > If that was the case, a single event (1 per 100,000 km^2) caught by accident > in an unpopulated area (0.0001 people per 100,000 km^2, say) would create a > whopping fat frequency bullseye (10,000 tubes). > > I have a feeling that the Australian database suffers greatly from > under-reporting in most areas, possibly to the extent that > a meaningful contour map of tornado frequencies cannot be drawn. > > Given the population clustering along the coast a perhaps better > attempt of compiling an Australian severe storms climatology is > the use of remote sensing devices. Radar covers some areas and > might be useful for those. Cloud top temperature (CCT) can be montitored > from space with decent spatial and temporal continuity, but then you > have the impossible problem of relating CCT to tornado frequencies. > > >> This is > >> approximately the same as the tornado density in the central Great Plains > >> states of the USA and half the density in the tornado alley in Central > >> Oklahoma (Davies-Jones, 1985). > > The latest U.S. tornado climatology is work done by Harold Brooks at NSSL. > Take a peek at > > http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/hazard/loops.html . > > Is Davies-Jones (1985) (journal?) a severe storms climo? > > >> According to Bart Geerts (University of Alabama and > >> Huntsville) and Mosese Noke-Raico (Macquarie University), the Sydney CBD and > >> outer suburbs has the highest tornado density in Australia. > > For the reason stated above that finding does not fill me with joy. > Do Geerts and/or Noke-Raico have any of their work on the web/ in the literature? > > Here's a suggestion for ASWA: > A collection of daily high-resolution IR/VIS images for every day between > now and February would give us a decent idea regarding the > storm distribution for *this* coming season. > If this is done for several years we might be able > to see an emerging pattern. > Alternatively, a satellite archive might already allow us to > do so. > > Oh yeah, my guess for the 'hot spot': > NC/NE NSW and SC/SE QLD - high SSTs and > strong flow associated with those lows > down south which reaches up that far north. > > Cheers, Harald > > -- > ------------------------------------------- > Harald Richter > NOAA/National Severe Storms Laboratory > 1313 Halley Circle > Norman, OK 73069, U.S.A. > ph.: (405) 366-0430 > fax: (405) 579-0808 > email: hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov > web: http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/~hrichter > ------------------------------------------- > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ -- Anthony Cornelius Queensland Coordinator of the Australian Severe Weather Association (ASWA) (07) 3390 4812 14 Kinsella St Belmont, Brisbane QLD, 4153 Please report severe thunderstorms on our Queensland severe thunderstorm reporting line on (07) 3390 4218 or by going to our homepage at http://www.severeweather.asn.au +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ X-Sender: jdeguara at pop.ihug.com.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:23:28 +1000 To: aussie-weather at world.std.com From: Jimmy Deguara Subject: Re: Fw: aus-wx: latest photos Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hi Tracy and also Don, Thanks for the information. You chased the storm - way to go.... I haven't noticed you on the list before I must confess. Could you please introduce yourself to the others on the list ie tell others what are your main interests etc what you do at the Weather Company.... Jimmy Deguara At 05:44 PM 10/08/00 +1000, you wrote: >Jimmy, > >I also happened to be in Wollongong on 1/8/00 during the storms. I only saw >tiny pea-sized hail, but there was plenty of it. It covered the roadside >between about Corrimal and Woonona in a balnket of white, small stones. >There was plenty of lightning and I actually chased the storm as it moved >towards the coast and off the beach at Bulli. >Didn't see any large hail and nobody I know who was around those areas saw >any either. >Hope that helps > >Tracey Malmborg >____________________ >The Weather Company >Level 2, 7 West Street >North Sydney 2060 >Phone: (02) 9955 7704 >Fax: (02) 9955 1536 >twc at theweather.com.au >----- Original Message ----- >From: Don White >To: >Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 7:15 PM >Subject: Re: aus-wx: latest photos > > > > Jimmy, > > Re the Wollongong storm - all the media reports I heard/saw and the on > > ground reports I had from a couple of people, plus the reports from ASWA > > members on this line - none of those mentioned /saw/heard anything other > > than small stuff. It would be good to know -perhaps NRMA could advise if > > there was hail damage to cars or maybe "tennis ball" hail is just > > another example of SRS - snow reporting syndrome!!! > > Don White > > > > Jimmy Deguara wrote: > > > > > > Michael, > > > > > > I have heard again of reports of tennis ball sized hail from a storm on > > > that day with damage to cars. I don't think this was just a dumping of a > > > lot of little stuff. I think there must have been a band of larger >stuff. > > > Did anyone watch the media reports on it... The storm occurred on the > > > afternoon of the 1st August... > > > > > > Some of the updraughts were very powerful. But who knows > > > > > > Jimmy Deguara > > > > > > At 10:34 AM 9/08/00 +1000, you wrote: > > > >I work with 150 people from just about every Wollongong suburb and the >best > > > >hailstone reported was a little over 1cm, but lots and lots of them. >The BOM > > > >warning had hail large enough to damage cars at Corrimal, but I have a >box > > > >of hailstones somebody brought in from Corrimal as a present and they >are > > > >all 1cm or less. > > > > > > > >After several coups in the forecast department at work, with the cold >fronts > > > >early this winter, this storm had dinged my reputation as I did predict >it > > > >an hour or so out, but said it was very weak. Of course the ' very weak >' > > > >was the sole comment that everybody remembers me for. > > > > > > > >Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > line photo, also the Wollongong (possible) supercell. I wonder if >there > > > > > were more reports from this event as people heard of media reports >of > > > > > tennis ball sized hail.... I wish someone could confirm or disprove >it.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail >to:majordomo at world.std.com > > > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of >your > > > > message. > > > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > Jimmy Deguara > > > Storm Chaser and Mathematics Teacher > > > > > > from > > > Schofields, Sydney > > > NSW Australia > > > > > > e-mail:jdeguara at ihug.com.au > > > > > > Web Page with Michael Bath > > > > > > Australian Severe Weather Home Page > > > http://www.australiasevereweather.com > > > > > > President of the Australian Severe Weather Association > > > http://www.severeweather.asn.au > > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail >to:majordomo at world.std.com > > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of >your > > > message. > > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > > message. > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Jimmy Deguara Storm Chaser and Mathematics Teacher from Schofields, Sydney NSW Australia e-mail:jdeguara at ihug.com.au Web Page with Michael Bath Australian Severe Weather Home Page http://www.australiasevereweather.com President of the Australian Severe Weather Association http://www.severeweather.asn.au +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ X-Sender: jra at upnaway.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:28:32 +0800 To: aussie-weather at world.std.com From: Ira Fehlberg Subject: Re: aus-wx: MEDIA: ASWA Media Liason Persons. Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Here here, i aggree, I think the best thing would be to at least have the media report all naders even if they only breifly mention them. Even if they happen in the bush & do no damage. So that way ppl get used to hearing about them. I have tried to do this here, it aint easy but we will get there. Id rather see it reported as a mini, freak or whatever nader than nothing at all. Ira Fehlberg At 19:28 10/08/00 +1000, you wrote: >In working for some media outlets in the area of weather consulting >makes me realise the problems but I fear we all get too carried away by >the use of mini. The first priority must be to ensure that weather is >reported accurately as possible and not in a way that could mislead. The >nature of the media in this country is to "beef up" a story and this is >a far greater problem than the semantics discussed on this line at >times. >To me, the tornado in the Sunbury area appears to have been small and >probably insiginificant by world standards.... so what should it have >been called - a small / a weak or mini ??? After all that is what it was >apparently. Sure, I dont like the word mini and would prefer small etc >but let's not get our knickers in a knot of this when- I believe - there >are more important things such as basic accuracy in reporting wetaher >phenomena. Get the media to take more note of warnings - when was the >last time a television station interupted programs to broadcast a severe >storm warning?? >Forget the F0 and F1 ideas - the public doesn't need to be educated to >this level in this country and at this stage, such terms would be >meaningless to most. >Thanks for reading > >don White > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "clyve herbert" To: Subject: Re: aus-wx: MEDIA: ASWA Media Liason Persons. Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:20:44 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hi Don . I have found that the tendency of the media is to actually "beef Down" the occurrence of tornadoes in Australia by the use of such terms ie mini /freak etc. The Sunbury tornado/tornadoes, was certainly not insignificant by world standards and what is a world standard on tornadoes?. However i agree that all aspects of reporting should be accurate and based on an excepted standard, i.e. such excepted standards of reporting do exist such as tropical cyclone/hurricane intensity ratings which are all well known by the media and the public . . In respect to the standard rating of tornadoes the only world wide rating is the Fujita scale, although not perfect, as he said himself it is the best so far, I feel that the public are quite capable of excepting this rating and little education would be needed, over the last 10 years or so the public me included have become a lot more aware of tornado occurrences in this country now is the time to standardise a reporting method Best wishes Clyve Herbert. ----- Original Message ----- From: Don White To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 7:28 PM Subject: Re: aus-wx: MEDIA: ASWA Media Liason Persons. > In working for some media outlets in the area of weather consulting > makes me realise the problems but I fear we all get too carried away by > the use of mini. The first priority must be to ensure that weather is > reported accurately as possible and not in a way that could mislead. The > nature of the media in this country is to "beef up" a story and this is > a far greater problem than the semantics discussed on this line at > times. > To me, the tornado in the Sunbury area appears to have been small and > probably insiginificant by world standards.... so what should it have > been called - a small / a weak or mini ??? After all that is what it was > apparently. Sure, I dont like the word mini and would prefer small etc > but let's not get our knickers in a knot of this when- I believe - there > are more important things such as basic accuracy in reporting wetaher > phenomena. Get the media to take more note of warnings - when was the > last time a television station interupted programs to broadcast a severe > storm warning?? > Forget the F0 and F1 ideas - the public doesn't need to be educated to > this level in this country and at this stage, such terms would be > meaningless to most. > Thanks for reading > > don White > > such as > > Carl Smith wrote: > > > > Hi All. > > > > A suggestion for discussion. > > > > It seems to me that the ASWA in every State could nominate a Media Liason > > Person to moniter weather event reporting in the media, and that the > > identity of this person by widely publicised on this list and elsewhere so > > that details of weather event reporting can be communicated and acted upon. > > > > This person would have the responsibility to follow up reporting anomolies > > with the media, being so persistent in doing so that eventually they will > > get the message. > > > > Each time a "MINI TORNADO" or a "MINI-CYCLONE", or other bit of stupid > > reporting is aired, the TV/Radio/Newspaper is contacted by phone, which is > > then followed up on paper with an 'Official' ASWA letter-head, and all such > > communications are logged and filed, along with details/copies of all > > responses. Such communications could also include references as to where > > the media can look up the correct terminology, such as on the BoM website. > > > > Another responsibility could also to be to notify them in writing in a > > positive fashion when they have handled a particular situation well, as > > positive reinforcement is one of the most useful tactics one can use to > > bring about change. > > > > A third responsibility could be to also contact the BoM in these cases and > > encourage them to also follow up on mis-reporting and to continue to > > communicate with the media about accurate reporting of weather events and > > the correct terminology to be used. > > > > Recent examples where such things could be dealt with include a positive > > reinforcement letter to Channel 9's Nightline for correctly using the term > > "tornado" several times (without putting "mini" in front of it), and to > > Channel 10 Sydney for doing the same in their report on the 5PM News > > earlier tonight (although they did once call it a "FREAK" tornado), whilst > > "The Panel" could receive a correctional letter for calling it a > > "mini-tornado" several times in a minute or so before airing some of the > > footage and giving us a belly laugh by highlighting the comments of the > > people who videoed it. > > > > Files can then be built up which could in moments of opportunity be > > utilised in the media to highlight just how frequently mis-reporting of > > weather events occurs. > > > > I am aware that some of you do these kind of things from time to time, but > > an organised approach would be far more effective in bringing about change > > than the occasional sporadic communication, and would also result in the > > media seeking ASWA viewpoints on weather events far more often than is > > currently the case. > > > > Anyway, just a suggestion for discussion. > > > > Regards, > > Carl (who is not an ASWA member, but would like to be if he could afford to > > do so) > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Carl Smith. > > Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia. > > Email: carls at ace-net.com.au > > Internet: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/index.htm > > Current Cyclone information: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/current.htm > > Cyclone Tracking Maps: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/TCMaps.htm > > or: http://cyclones.50megs.com/maps/TCMaps.htm > > Tropical Cyclone Archives: http://cyclones.50megs.com/ > > > > Please note the new location of all archive type material and update your > > bookmarks and website links. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > > message. > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ X-Originating-IP: [141.132.128.10] From: "Leslie Baxter" To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Subject: Re: aus-wx: Melbourne Tornadoes Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 02:04:53 GMT X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2000 02:04:53.0315 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F7EE130:01C0026F] Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com David Brown said on the news last night that the twister was a F2. Looked like a supercell from here in ballarat, nice over shoot and all. Les >From: "clyve herbert" >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com >To: , "wx-chase" > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Melbourne Tornadoes >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:58:13 +1000 > >Hi all >I have had a look at some footage and a rather spectacular photo of the >Sunbury tornado, the system appears to be a severe multicell with very >vigourous pulses , there is evedence of cold advection at 500 to 300hpa and >progressive surface warming through the day. the photograph appeared in the >2nd edition of the Sun Herald and distincktly shows a good sized rotating >wall cloud with a nice funnel embedded, the video sequence shows the >funnel almost on the ground and Andrew Mcdonald has advised that debri was >being lifted at the surface.The BOM has rated the event at f0 or f1 and >indicated the track was about 9klm long and on the ground for about 10min , >however Macka has been investigating the track for most of the day dispite >being sick! and has notched up more than 20ks of damage extending from west >of Sunbury to Bulla,looking forward to his video and report.regards to all >Clyve H. --- Original Message ----- >From: clyve herbert >To: ; wx-chase > >Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 5:29 AM >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Melbourne Tornadoes > > > > Hello all. > > The tornado footage looked strangely similar to an American tornado i >saw > > earlier in July! I will check into it. > > regards Clyve H > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Anthony Cornelius > > To: Australian Weather Mailing List ; >wx-chase > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 12:43 AM > > Subject: aus-wx: Melbourne Tornadoes > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I saw the footage of the tornadoes in Melbourne - very impressive!!! > > > The funnel was not reaching the ground (although you could see the > > > rotation at the bottom), and the power flashes were amongst the best > > > that I've ever seen!!! That person videoing was perhaps a little too > > > close for comfort! > > > > > > Sky News also showed more footage of (another?) tornado taken from > > > inside a car - it looks quite different to the other tornado (the >funnel > > > was reaching the ground here). > > > > > > Perhaps some of the Vic ASWA members can ring up the TV stations and > > > track down the person who took the footage? (Jane? Macca?) I'm sure > > > there's plenty more footage then what they showed on the news!!! > > > > > > I did some radar loops off my radar archives: > > > http://www.bsch.simplenet.com/anthony/August%209/Melbourne%20Broad.gif > > > http://www.bsch.simplenet.com/anthony/August%209/Melbourne%20Local.gif > > > > > > -- > > > Anthony Cornelius > > > Queensland Coordinator of the Australian Severe Weather Association > > > (ASWA) > > > (07) 3390 4812 > > > 14 Kinsella St > > > Belmont, Brisbane > > > QLD, 4153 > > > Please report severe thunderstorms on our Queensland severe >thunderstorm > > > reporting line on (07) 3390 4218 or by going to our homepage at > > > http://www.severeweather.asn.au > > > >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail >to:majordomo at world.std.com > > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of >your > > > message. > > > >-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail >to:majordomo at world.std.com > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of >your > > message. > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "clyve herbert" To: Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sunbury tornado spawned by supercell Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:51:19 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com Hi Hamish. What a fantastic stroke of luck this whole event has been with what now appears to have been a multiple tornadic episode across central Victoria, that this Doppler apparatus was at that time in use. I agree that although initially i suspected a severe multicell, the fact that a sustained updraft (rotating) for almost one hour ,would most probably categorise this storm system as a supercell ,possibly of the "winter" type with rather low vertical extent . I believe the tops were between 28.000 and 32.000ft although this is not yet confirmed, the 300hpa level was -50c not to bad, again the lack of mid level shear appears to take some by surprise however i now of other tornadic outbreaks here in Aus that have also occurred with weak shear hope to here more regards Clyve Herbert. ----- Original Message ----- From: hamish ramsay To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 5:32 PM Subject: aus-wx: Sunbury tornado spawned by supercell > Hi all, > > we have just been looking at Doppler images from the Sunbury storm here at > the BOM training school. It just so happened that the experimental 5cm > Doppler out at Broadmeadows was in action at the same time which has > provided some excellent information about the storm stucture. The > refelectivity at the time of the tornado shows a characteristic hook echo, > while the storm relative velocities show good rotation in the main updraft > for period of about 50 minutes. This suggests that the storm was in fact a > supercell, not a multi-cell. This was somewhat surprising considering the > low-mid level shear was not terribly strong in the period leading up to the > event. Look forward to hearing more about it at the next ASWA meeting in > September. > > Cheers, > > Hamish. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ From: "clyve herbert" To: Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado hotspots Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:54:17 +1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com HI ALL According to a Fujita study Australia he thought ranked 2nd to the USA in total tornadic occurrences. regards Clyve H. ----- Original Message ----- From: bussie To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 1:59 PM Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado hotspots > Perhaps we do get more than America as stated, as we have a low population > and a lot of touchdowns would be in isolated parts of the country that no > one ever knows about? > > Bussy (NE Vic) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ira Fehlberg > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 12:43 AM > Subject: Re: aus-wx: tornado hotspots > > > > > > Mandurah is our tornado capital here in WA and Australia I believe. Its > had > > with a remarkable 12 tornadoes in the space of 35 years. This is directly > > on the town of Mandurah, not suburbs, thats right in downtown Mandurah. An > > area of 25 square k's (5k's x 5k's) not a big area. If you include the > area > > just north and just south (i.e. Safety Bay, Shoalwater Bay, Rockingham and > > southern mandurah suburbs) the figure is 27! With 7 of these being either > > F-2 or F-3. Include Perth and its suburbs and the figure goes to 70, BOM > > confirmed tornadoes in 40 years. Not bad figures....... > > > > Ira Fehlberg > > > > > > At 18:38 9/08/00 +0800, you wrote: > > > > > >Mandurah, just to the south of Perth, would probably be the tornado > hotspot > > >town in Australia, Barry Hanstrum from the WA Severe Weather Section has > also > > >stated this before. > > > > > >Mandurah has had many tornadoes over the years, why it does they are not > > sure, > > >but it maybe something to do with how the coast is in that area as strong > > cold > > >fronts hit the coast. > > > > > >Jacob > > > > > >At 08:17 9/08/00 +1000, you wrote: > > >> > > >> Hello Michael and all, > > >> I thought I would just shed some light concerning the topic of the > > End of > > >> Year Chase and the frequency of tornadoes in various parts of > Australia. > > >> Perhaps the greatest hotspot for tornado occurrences is the Sydney > > >> Metropolitan Area itself. According to Bart Geerts (University of > > Alabama and > > >> Huntsville) and Mosese Noke-Raico (Macquarie University), the Sydney > CBD > > and > > >> outer suburbs has the highest tornado density in Australia. Within a > half > > >> circle with a radius of 50km around Sydney, a total of 6 tornadoes per > year > > >> per 23,000 square kilometres occurred for the period 1960-1992. This is > > >> approximately the same as the tornado density in the central Great > Plains > > >> states of the USA and half the density in the tornado alley in Central > > >> Oklahoma (Davies-Jones, 1985). Hereafter, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth > and > > >> Adelaide bare frequencies not lagging far behind that of Sydney. > > >> When you compare the frequency of tornado occurrences with that of > the > > >> population density, the prominant reason why tornadoes are considered > rare > > >> can be seen, (after Minor et al.) > > >> The Queensland Highlands has a tornado occurrence of 1.2 per > 100,000 > > >> square kilometres. The population density for the same area is 0.3 per > > square > > >> kilometre. When the tornado occurrences are joined with the population > > >> density, the number of occurrences per 100,000 people is 4.0. This is > quite > > >> an extraordinary figure considering the population. If you compare this > > with > > >> Oklahoma in the US, which has a tornado occurrence of 22.0 per 100,000 > > square > > >> kilometres and a population density of 11.2 per square kilometre, the > > >> occurrence of tornadoes once joined with the density of population > comes > > out > > >> to 2.0. This is a remarkable figure considering, just proving the point > > that > > >> in some cases, Australia is the home of tornado occurrences equal to, > if > > not > > >> greater than that of the US is some areas. > > >> Other areas of significance are the Western Australia Agricultural > Belt > > >> and Goldfields which has an tornado occurrence of 0.65, a population of > > 0.27 > > >> per square kilometre and the number of occurrence per 100,000 people is > > 2.4; > > >> still, quite a large number considering the population.The Victorian > > Western > > >> Highlands have a tornado occurrence of 5.6 and a population density of > 5.6, > > >> leaving a rather small number of tornado occurrences per 100,000 > people: > > 1.0. > > >> Finally the New South Wales Slopes have a tornado occurrence of 1.1, > > >> population density of 1.3 and an occurrence per 100,000 persons of just > > 0.9. > > >> However, using the figures of past tornado occurrences, the > > population of > > >> this ever-growing country proves a major dilemma and investigators > problem > > >> when attempting to determine the climatology of Australian tornadoes. > The > > >> large growth in population over the past decade (not taking into > > >> consideration environmental factors), the increase in population is > single > > >> handedly responsible for the increase in tornado reports and hence, the > > >> frequency. > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Dean AL Sgarbossa > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Michael Thompson > > >> <michaelt at ozemail.com.au> > > >> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com > > >> <aussie-weather at world.std.com> > > >> Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000 19:03 > > >> Subject: Re: aus-wx: End of Year Chase 2000 > > >> > > >> >I think that the SE Queensland area north from Brisbane to say > > Bundaberg is > > >> >one of Australia's tornado hotspots. Anybody have any idea on how > many - > > >> >Anthony, James ?? > > >> > > > >> >Michael > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail > to:majordomo at world.std.com > > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > > > message. > > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > > message. > > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your > message. > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your message. -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------