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Storm News
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Australian Weather Mailing List Archives: Wednesday, 9 February 2000 |
From Subject
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
001 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at flatrate.net.au] Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
002 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at flatrate.net.au] Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
003 "John Woodbridge" [jrw at pixelcom.net] Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
004 "John Woodbridge" [jrw at pixelcom.net] Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
005 Andrew Wall [astroman at chariot.net.au] HAPPY BIRTHDAY KATHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
006 Don White [donwhite at ozemail.com.au] Williamtown radar
007 "Willis, Andrew" [adwillis at bechtel.com] Williamtown radar
008 "Mark Hardy" [mhardy at magna.com.au] Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
009 Harald Richter [hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up! (fwd)
010 Paul.Mossman at DWNNICH.OCA.nt.gov.au Major / Severe Rain Event?
011 Paul.Mossman at DWNNICH.OCA.nt.gov.au Severe World Weather
012 "Leslie R. Lemon" [lrlemon at compuserve.com] Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up! (fwd)
013 Paul.Mossman at DWNNICH.OCA.nt.gov.au Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up! (fwd)
014 "David Croan" [wxbustchase at hotmail.com] 1528 STA for southern NSW
015 Patrick_Tobin at ama.com.au 1528 STA for southern NSW
016 Jimmy Deguara [jdeguara at ihug.com.au] Sydney Western Suburbs heat
017 Matt Smith [disarm at braenet.com.au] Sydney Western Suburbs heat
018 Andrew Wall [astroman at chariot.net.au] Storms North, North, East of Adelaide
019 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] 1528 STA for southern NSW
020 "Max King" [mnk at Dingoblue.net.au] Sydney Western Suburbs heat
021 "weatherhead" [weatherhead at ozemail.com.au] Williamtown radar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
001
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:24:38 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at flatrate.net.au]
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Subject: Re: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
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Hi Jimmy,
Jimmy Deguara wrote:
However, after a
> talk to Tim Crugeon who was on the list during last year suggested he had
> information sources suggesting stronger dust devils can reach F2 status.
> Now that is very strong. There have been documented evidence of WA and SA
> dust devils causing roof damage to houses. Not bad heh.
Dust Devils have been known to cause 'near F3' damage, which is quite
phenomenal really! A lot of people underestimate the power of dust
devils, but I believe many dust devils are capable of producing minor
damage (eg, branches down etc). And you don't need dust for dust devils
too. During Dec 27 of 1998, I had a dust devil at dad's farm - without
the dust. Instead, a rising column of air with rotating leaves in it,
which gave gales that broke branches as it went through an area of
trees. While I never saw it form, I believe it formed over a nearby
ploughed crop field, full of dirt. I think we got up to 42C out there -
but don't quote me. But I believe that it is interesting how once a
dust devil is formed, you do not quite need the same ingredients as
before to keep it going.
I often get worried when I hear people driving through dust devils -
essentially, you're driving through something that has the velocity of a
weak tornado, and occassionally a strong tornado. I have heard many
stories of people nearly being pushed off the road from dust devils. A
dust devil IMO, is as deceiving as a tornado - while 95% of the time,
you can approximate its strength from visual observations, you can't do
it all the time, and as it is easy to underestimate the strength of a
tornado from visual observations, it is just as easy to underestimate
the strength of a seemingly weak dust devil.
--
Anthony Cornelius
Queensland Coordinator of the Australian Severe Weather Association
(ASWA)
(07) 3390 4812
14 Kinsella St
Belmont, Brisbane
QLD, 4153
Please report severe thunderstorms on our Queensland severe thunderstorm
reporting line on (07) 3390 4218 or by going to our homepage at
http://www.severeweather.asn.au
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002
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 23:30:28 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at flatrate.net.au]
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Subject: Re: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
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Hi Michael,
Michael Scollay wrote:
>
> Indeed, they are awesome. Thanks! I wonder whether the formation
> of Decent Dust Devils (DDDs:-) is closely related to tornados from
> supercell thunderstorms. My scant knowledge of gliding combined
> with the extensive experience of glider pilots from the Bathurst
> Soaring Club gives "observed" evidence of rotating thermals in
> clear air during both cloudless days and also some way underneath
> fair weather cumulus clouds. This rotation appears to combine with
> intensive thermal activity from ground level to set an entire
> column of air into rotation giving both a structure and appearance
> of a DDD very similar, if not identical to a tornado.
I have, for many years been a believer that the rotational aspect of
DD's, waterspouts, landspouts (which are IMO tornadoes anyway), and
tornadoes is analogous. Another interesting aspect you may want to look
at/explore are rotating bushfires. That is, the entire bushfire
rotating - which looks very much like a huge wedge tornado with the
smoke. And fire devils. All of these are an infinitely interesting
area of meteorology.
One question
> remains however, that is the direction of rotation which is
> difficult to judge from the still photographs. Perhaps John and
> Ira have some comments about this.
While the "Simpsons Downunder" episode may have many people believing
you requre an extremely advanced toilet flushing system to make water
rotate anti-clockwise, it is quite easy. Just kneel beside the bath tub
while giving your dog a bath, and align the hose in such a way, and
wallah - water spins down the drain anti-clockwise. Nifty eh?
Certainly food for thought, and again - if you think deep enough,
extremely interesting. But I won't go into this now, as I'm yet to
gather my thoughts completely.
--
Anthony Cornelius
Queensland Coordinator of the Australian Severe Weather Association
(ASWA)
(07) 3390 4812
14 Kinsella St
Belmont, Brisbane
QLD, 4153
Please report severe thunderstorms on our Queensland severe thunderstorm
reporting line on (07) 3390 4218 or by going to our homepage at
http://www.severeweather.asn.au
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003
From: "John Woodbridge" [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:02:37 +1000
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My 2 cents worth,
I suggest that the ground level wind flows, structure and dynamics for both
Tornado and dust devils are in fact identical, it is just a question of
scale & severity. I suspect that dust devils appear to grow up from the
ground purely because there is no cloud formation or condensation to make
rotating updrafts visible. As has often been remarked, the vertical extent
of a large dust devil can be surprisingly high, with debris sometimes lifted
out of sight (so we are talking well over a few hundred meters).
Furthermore, I can recall seeing willy willies in Perth which appear to lift
off the ground, skip or batter the tops of trees before dropping down again,
implying that the source of rotation is clearly from above.
What is curious is that dust devils appear to be a phenomena restricted to
hot DRY air environments. I can recall seeing many willy willies in Perth
during summer (typically just before the arrival of the Sea Breeze - which I
guess acts like a mini cold front producing and enhancing lifting), but I
can't recall ever having seen one in Brisbane even though it has been
unbearably hot at times.
The pics are awesome, and show many features common to funnels of all
classes.
Regards,
John.
>snip
Hi Michael and others,
I won't comment on the relationship between dust devils and supercell
tornadoes (although I think the dynamics are different) However, after a
talk to Tim Crugeon who was on the list during last year suggested he had
information sources suggesting stronger dust devils can reach F2 status.
Now that is very strong. There have been documented evidence of WA and SA
dust devils causing roof damage to houses. Not bad heh.
Jimmy Deguara
>
>Indeed, they are awesome. Thanks! I wonder whether the formation
>of Decent Dust Devils (DDDs:-) is closely related to tornados from
>supercell thunderstorms. My scant knowledge of gliding combined
>with the extensive experience of glider pilots from the Bathurst
>Soaring Club gives "observed" evidence of rotating thermals in
>clear air during both cloudless days and also some way underneath
>fair weather cumulus clouds. This rotation appears to combine with
>intensive thermal activity from ground level to set an entire
>column of air into rotation giving both a structure and appearance
>of a DDD very similar, if not identical to a tornado. One question
>remains however, that is the direction of rotation which is
>difficult to judge from the still photographs. Perhaps John and
>Ira have some comments about this.
>
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-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
004
From: "John Woodbridge" [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:15:48 +1000
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Hi Anthony,
I too have observed that to make water swirl the 'other way' down a bath
drain pipe is actually very easy, you just influence the initial rotation
with quick swirl of the hand. In fact you can actually convince it switch
rotational direction without too much trouble also.
All other things being equal and in equilibrium, perhaps the coriolis force
does exert enough "curl" to influence initial rotation of water going down a
drain. If so, then you would certainly expect it to influence larger scale
phenomena. Personally, I think it has more to do with plumbing and the way
the drain "loops" are arranged which must always apply some twist to the
flow.
Regards,
John
>snip
While the "Simpsons Downunder" episode may have many people believing
you requre an extremely advanced toilet flushing system to make water
rotate anti-clockwise, it is quite easy. Just kneel beside the bath tub
while giving your dog a bath, and align the hose in such a way, and
wallah - water spins down the drain anti-clockwise. Nifty eh?
Certainly food for thought, and again - if you think deep enough,
extremely interesting. But I won't go into this now, as I'm yet to
gather my thoughts completely.
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-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
005
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 06:24:08 +1030
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Andrew Wall [astroman at chariot.net.au]
Subject: aus-wx: HAPPY BIRTHDAY KATHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY KATHRYN!!!!!!!!
BTW: Small storm observed on RADAR and Radio this morning, South West of
Meningie (South of Adelaide), not much lightning approx 1-2 strikes every
10 seconds or so. Cannot see any cloud tops from it, might take a run up to
the lookout before work.
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006
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 06:15:28 +1000
From: Don White [donwhite at ozemail.com.au]
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Subject: Re: aus-wx: Williamtown radar
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Jimmy,
The area you referred to last Monday on the Williamtown radar and
naturally also appeared on the composites (Syd large scale) was the 2nd
or 3rd time I've noticed this in very humid NE conditions. Otherwise, no
clues?
Don W
Jimmy Deguara wrote:
>
> I am starting to wonder about the Williamtown radar. Is there low level
> stuff around in the area or is the radar drunk?? It did this yesterday as
> well indicating an area of shower activity. Normally I can see signs of it
> from where I live here at Schofields. Even the satpics don't really show
> clouds consitent with the rainfall indicated - particularly today.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Jimmy Deguara
>
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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007
From: "Willis, Andrew" [adwillis at bechtel.com]
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Williamtown radar
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:09:21 -0800
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Seeing as my work is five minutes from Williamtown, I can assure you there
was little to no cloud anywhere around Newcastle yesterday. Today either
with the exception of some high cirrus.
Wonder if the RAAF'ys have been putting beer in the radar?
> I am starting to wonder about the Williamtown radar. Is there low level
> stuff around in the area or is the radar drunk?? It did this yesterday as
> well indicating an area of shower activity. Normally I can see signs of it
>
> from where I live here at Schofields. Even the satpics don't really show
> clouds consitent with the rainfall indicated - particularly today.
>
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008
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 07:27:44 +1100
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
From: "Mark Hardy" [mhardy at magna.com.au]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
John
I see your 2 cents and raise you 1.
One key difference between dust devils and tornados (and there are many) is
that the dynamics of DD are driven by the superadiabatic lapse rate near the
ground. The tornado is driven by a intense instability in the lower/middle
levels of the thunderstorm cloud caused by latent heat release. SO, DD are
driven from the surface but the genesis of a tornado is at higher altitudes.
The skipping that occurs shows that the DD can be sustained when temporarily
removed from the surface superadiabatic conditions but it certainly will die
unless it can find a fresh source of superadiabatic air.
Dry, sandy, dusty, ashen (post bushfires) are perfect spots to find
superadiabatic air as they have low reflectivity and heat rapidly (low
thermal capacity) in the sun.
_____________________________________________________
Mark Hardy.
Head Meteorologist, Weather 21
Level 2, 7 West Street, North Sydney 2060
Ph (02) 9955 7704. Fax (02) 9955 1536.
email: markh at weather21.com.au
_____________________________________________________
----------
>From: "John Woodbridge"
>To:
>Subject: RE: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
>Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 1:02
>
> My 2 cents worth,
>
> I suggest that the ground level wind flows, structure and dynamics for both
> Tornado and dust devils are in fact identical, it is just a question of
> scale & severity. I suspect that dust devils appear to grow up from the
> ground purely because there is no cloud formation or condensation to make
> rotating updrafts visible. As has often been remarked, the vertical extent
> of a large dust devil can be surprisingly high, with debris sometimes lifted
> out of sight (so we are talking well over a few hundred meters).
> Furthermore, I can recall seeing willy willies in Perth which appear to lift
> off the ground, skip or batter the tops of trees before dropping down again,
> implying that the source of rotation is clearly from above.
>
> What is curious is that dust devils appear to be a phenomena restricted to
> hot DRY air environments. I can recall seeing many willy willies in Perth
> during summer (typically just before the arrival of the Sea Breeze - which I
> guess acts like a mini cold front producing and enhancing lifting), but I
> can't recall ever having seen one in Brisbane even though it has been
> unbearably hot at times.
>
> The pics are awesome, and show many features common to funnels of all
> classes.
>
> Regards,
> John.
>>snip
>
> Hi Michael and others,
>
> I won't comment on the relationship between dust devils and supercell
> tornadoes (although I think the dynamics are different) However, after a
> talk to Tim Crugeon who was on the list during last year suggested he had
> information sources suggesting stronger dust devils can reach F2 status.
> Now that is very strong. There have been documented evidence of WA and SA
> dust devils causing roof damage to houses. Not bad heh.
>
> Jimmy Deguara
>>
>>Indeed, they are awesome. Thanks! I wonder whether the formation
>>of Decent Dust Devils (DDDs:-) is closely related to tornados from
>>supercell thunderstorms. My scant knowledge of gliding combined
>>with the extensive experience of glider pilots from the Bathurst
>>Soaring Club gives "observed" evidence of rotating thermals in
>>clear air during both cloudless days and also some way underneath
>>fair weather cumulus clouds. This rotation appears to combine with
>>intensive thermal activity from ground level to set an entire
>>column of air into rotation giving both a structure and appearance
>>of a DDD very similar, if not identical to a tornado. One question
>>remains however, that is the direction of rotation which is
>>difficult to judge from the still photographs. Perhaps John and
>>Ira have some comments about this.
>>
>
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> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
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009
From: Harald Richter [hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up! (fwd)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com (Australian Severe Weather Association)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 15:28:33 -0600 (CST)
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Hi John and ASWA:
I tend to think of dustdevils and tornadoes in terms of two key
parameters: vertical "updraught" strength and supply of "rotation"
(or vorticity). Most other players somehow relate to these two
parameters.
In case of dustdevils, the surface layer of superadiabatic
air supplies the buoyancy/updraught strength to the vortex.
I believe (haven't read the literature on this for a decade or so)
that the dustdevil spin originates from pre-existing
rotation of the air flow around the vortex that gets pulled in
and "stretched" (= augmented) in the updraught.
Tornadoes appear to be a whole lot messier as more
components influence the key parameters. Now the atmospheric
lapse rate, inflow parcel temperature and humidity, the
shear environment and other things influence the updraught
strength. The vorticity/rotation supply to the tornado
is likely to originate from a zone of strong horizontal
temperature contrast along the trajectories of the inflowing
air and so on. .. the more people look the more
complexity they see. I am not even sure whether the question
of "do tornadoes grow up from the ground or down from
the cloud" is settled. The condensation funnel grows
downwards, but the circulation might not (Les, are
you awake?).
Harald
>
> John
> I see your 2 cents and raise you 1.
> One key difference between dust devils and tornados (and there are many) is
> that the dynamics of DD are driven by the superadiabatic lapse rate near the
> ground. The tornado is driven by a intense instability in the lower/middle
> levels of the thunderstorm cloud caused by latent heat release. SO, DD are
> driven from the surface but the genesis of a tornado is at higher altitudes.
>
> The skipping that occurs shows that the DD can be sustained when temporarily
> removed from the surface superadiabatic conditions but it certainly will die
> unless it can find a fresh source of superadiabatic air.
>
> Dry, sandy, dusty, ashen (post bushfires) are perfect spots to find
> superadiabatic air as they have low reflectivity and heat rapidly (low
> thermal capacity) in the sun.
> _____________________________________________________
> Mark Hardy.
> Head Meteorologist, Weather 21
> Level 2, 7 West Street, North Sydney 2060
> Ph (02) 9955 7704. Fax (02) 9955 1536.
> email: markh at weather21.com.au
> _____________________________________________________
>
> ----------
> >From: "John Woodbridge"
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up!
> >Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 1:02
> >
>
> > My 2 cents worth,
> >
> > I suggest that the ground level wind flows, structure and dynamics for both
> > Tornado and dust devils are in fact identical, it is just a question of
> > scale & severity. I suspect that dust devils appear to grow up from the
> > ground purely because there is no cloud formation or condensation to make
> > rotating updrafts visible. As has often been remarked, the vertical extent
> > of a large dust devil can be surprisingly high, with debris sometimes lifted
> > out of sight (so we are talking well over a few hundred meters).
> > Furthermore, I can recall seeing willy willies in Perth which appear to lift
> > off the ground, skip or batter the tops of trees before dropping down again,
> > implying that the source of rotation is clearly from above.
> >
> > What is curious is that dust devils appear to be a phenomena restricted to
> > hot DRY air environments. I can recall seeing many willy willies in Perth
> > during summer (typically just before the arrival of the Sea Breeze - which I
> > guess acts like a mini cold front producing and enhancing lifting), but I
> > can't recall ever having seen one in Brisbane even though it has been
> > unbearably hot at times.
> >
> > The pics are awesome, and show many features common to funnels of all
> > classes.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John.
> >>snip
> >
> > Hi Michael and others,
> >
> > I won't comment on the relationship between dust devils and supercell
> > tornadoes (although I think the dynamics are different) However, after a
> > talk to Tim Crugeon who was on the list during last year suggested he had
> > information sources suggesting stronger dust devils can reach F2 status.
> > Now that is very strong. There have been documented evidence of WA and SA
> > dust devils causing roof damage to houses. Not bad heh.
> >
> > Jimmy Deguara
> >>
> >>Indeed, they are awesome. Thanks! I wonder whether the formation
> >>of Decent Dust Devils (DDDs:-) is closely related to tornados from
> >>supercell thunderstorms. My scant knowledge of gliding combined
> >>with the extensive experience of glider pilots from the Bathurst
> >>Soaring Club gives "observed" evidence of rotating thermals in
> >>clear air during both cloudless days and also some way underneath
> >>fair weather cumulus clouds. This rotation appears to combine with
> >>intensive thermal activity from ground level to set an entire
> >>column of air into rotation giving both a structure and appearance
> >>of a DDD very similar, if not identical to a tornado. One question
> >>remains however, that is the direction of rotation which is
> >>difficult to judge from the still photographs. Perhaps John and
> >>Ira have some comments about this.
> >>
> >
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> > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> > message.
> > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
--
---------------------------------------------
Harald Richter
National Severe Storms Laboratory
1313 Halley Circle
Norman, OK 73069
ph.: (405) 366-0430
fax: (405) 579-0808
email: hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov
---------------------------------------------
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010
From: Paul.Mossman at DWNNICH.OCA.nt.gov.au
To: " - *aussie-weather at world.std.com" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Major / Severe Rain Event?
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:54:13 +0930
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Howdy all.
All models agree that there is a possibility of a major rain event for Southern
Nt / Northern Sa in the next 5 - 6 days.
Already Alice Springs region has had some very good falls - 30, 40 and even a
77mm for yesterday and radar again
looking like there is rain still falling maybe an indicator of some serious
flooding in the interior in the next week or 2.
Strange - it was only some weeks ago that Blair posted the fact the Alice
Springs hadnt had any rain for a long time.
Paul at Darwin.
PS Here - the rain has cleared now - sun out and its damm humid and quite
breezy. Forecast is for storms to return.
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011
From: Paul.Mossman at DWNNICH.OCA.nt.gov.au
To: " - *aussie-weather at world.std.com" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Severe World Weather
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:37:44 +0930
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This from ABC.
Torrential rain causes worst South African floods in 50 years
The death toll from the worst flooding to hit South Africa in nearly half a
century has risen to 27.
Tourists have been stranded by rising rivers in the Kruger National Park, while
in neighbouring Mozambique, as many as 100,000 people have been forced from
their homes.
In and around the Kruger National Park, South Africa's premier tourist
attraction, the worst of the flooding has now passed with river levels now
starting to recede.
Two hundred tourists were trapped by rising floodwaters, with wildlife also
forced to run for high ground.
The last remaining tourists will be rescued from isolated campsites later
today.
Hundreds of homes, roads and water pipelines have been damaged by the
torrential downpours that have soaked both South Africa and neighbouring
Mozambique
since the weekend, with some areas hit by more than 700 millimetres of rain in
just 24 hours.
Hundreds of people have had to be rescued from their homes, the South African
military is also on standby to assist with rescue operations in Mozambique
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012
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:23:32 -0500
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" [lrlemon at compuserve.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up! (fwd)
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Cc: "Leslie R. Lemon" <102177.2336 at compuserve.com>
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Harald and All:
Yes, dust devils originate with low level superadiabatic lapse rates and
the vertical stretching of preexisting vertical vorticity. Stretching in
the updraft augments the vorticity causing increasing rotation rates.
Maximum rotation occurs at or near the surface.
Tornadoes are, as Harald said, very much more complex. There is much we
don't yet know. However, there appears to be several ways in which
tornadoes develop. Some seem to develop from the ground upward in
preexisting vertical vorticity along colliding boundaries and with growing
towering cu above and at the resulting triple point. Others (gustnadoes)
develop along advancing gust fronts and are aided by stretching.
Some supercellular tornadoes do indeed develop first aloft, as the Union
City observations proved, and grow both upward and downward simultaneously.
Some seem to discount these observations for some unknown reason but our
observations using the NSSL pulsed Doppler radar proved beyond doubt that
this does, indeed, occur in some storms. Others, such as the Tulsa Tornado
in '96 developed first about 2 km aloft whereas the Union City tornado
developed at 5 km above ground level. Further, it took the UC tornado ~ 20
minutes to descend, the Tulsa tornado was on the ground in seconds. Other
supercellular tornadoes appear to develop through substantial depths
simultaneously. In other words, even supercellular tornadoes can develop
in a variety of ways.
We know that the RFD has great importance to tornado tornadogenesis. We
believe that in some tornadoes, the low level surface temperature gradients
ahead of the mesocyclone and along the edge of the precipitation echo are
important. However, we also know that in some storms these gradients don't
exist. Recently, in the VORTEX observations we see that some storms can be
seemingly nearly identical yet one tornadoes and another doesn't. We are
also finding that the boundary layer is critical to tornadogenesis. Strong
tornadic vortices can even extend downward to a few hundred meters of the
ground, yet never reach it. Moreover, we simply don't know why the
atmosphere produces tornadoes. Mixing can occur without tornadoes so why
they occur, we simply don't know.
Les
************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Phone: 816-373-3533
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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013
From: Paul.Mossman at DWNNICH.OCA.nt.gov.au
To: " - *aussie-weather at world.std.com" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up! (fwd)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:04:56 +0930
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So what you are saying Les - is that we simply still dont know!
:)
Isnt whoever (whatever you believe in) grand!!
Paul.
lrlemon at compuserve.com at SMTP at world.std.com on 09/02/2000 03:00:26 PM
Please respond to aussie-weather at world.std.com at SMTP
Sent by: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com at SMTP
cc: 102177.2336 at compuserve.com at SMTP
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Re: Awesome new dust devil pics are up! (fwd)
Harald and All:
Yes, dust devils originate with low level superadiabatic lapse rates and
the vertical stretching of preexisting vertical vorticity. Stretching in
the updraft augments the vorticity causing increasing rotation rates.
Maximum rotation occurs at or near the surface.
Tornadoes are, as Harald said, very much more complex. There is much we
don't yet know. However, there appears to be several ways in which
tornadoes develop. Some seem to develop from the ground upward in
preexisting vertical vorticity along colliding boundaries and with growing
towering cu above and at the resulting triple point. Others (gustnadoes)
develop along advancing gust fronts and are aided by stretching.
Some supercellular tornadoes do indeed develop first aloft, as the Union
City observations proved, and grow both upward and downward simultaneously.
Some seem to discount these observations for some unknown reason but our
observations using the NSSL pulsed Doppler radar proved beyond doubt that
this does, indeed, occur in some storms. Others, such as the Tulsa Tornado
in '96 developed first about 2 km aloft whereas the Union City tornado
developed at 5 km above ground level. Further, it took the UC tornado ~ 20
minutes to descend, the Tulsa tornado was on the ground in seconds. Other
supercellular tornadoes appear to develop through substantial depths
simultaneously. In other words, even supercellular tornadoes can develop
in a variety of ways.
We know that the RFD has great importance to tornado tornadogenesis. We
believe that in some tornadoes, the low level surface temperature gradients
ahead of the mesocyclone and along the edge of the precipitation echo are
important. However, we also know that in some storms these gradients don't
exist. Recently, in the VORTEX observations we see that some storms can be
seemingly nearly identical yet one tornadoes and another doesn't. We are
also finding that the boundary layer is critical to tornadogenesis. Strong
tornadic vortices can even extend downward to a few hundred meters of the
ground, yet never reach it. Moreover, we simply don't know why the
atmosphere produces tornadoes. Mixing can occur without tornadoes so why
they occur, we simply don't know.
Les
************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Phone: 816-373-3533
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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014
X-Originating-IP: [203.0.101.2]
From: "David Croan" [wxbustchase at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: 1528 STA for southern NSW
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:45:05 EST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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TOP PRIORITY FOR IMMEDIATE BROADCAST
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM ADVICE
BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
NEW SOUTH WALES REGIONAL OFFICE
Issued at 1528 on Wednesday the 9th of February 2000
This advice affects people in the following weather districts:
South Coast
Southern Tablelands near and east of Cooma, Captains Flat and Bungendore.
Thunderstorms are forecast within this area this afternoon and early
evening. Some of these are expected to be severe bringing very heavy
rainfall and the possibility of some hail and strong winds.
The STATE EMERGENCY SERVICE advises that as storms approach people should:
* put vehicles under cover
* move indoors away from windows
During and after the storm people should:
* beware of fallen trees and power lines
* keep away from creeks and drains as you may be swept away
The RTA recommends motorists switch their lights & wipers on & slow down in
the wet.
If your house is damaged contact your local SES unit, listed under "S" in
the white pages, for emergency assistance. Don't use the telephone during
storms.
TV CRAWL: Severe Thunderstorm Advice current forsouthern parts of Southern
Tablelands and South Coast.
NOT FOR BROADCAST: This Advice message is valid until 8:00pm. The Bureau
and SES would appreciate it being broadcast regularly until this time.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
015
From: Patrick_Tobin at ama.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMA at TNPN
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:10:07 +1000
Subject: Re: aus-wx: 1528 STA for southern NSW
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hmm... activity in that region seems much less pronounced than the last two
days...
Perhaps a spotter may have been struck by a stray hailstone ...?
TOP PRIORITY FOR IMMEDIATE BROADCAST
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM ADVICE
BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
NEW SOUTH WALES REGIONAL OFFICE
Issued at 1528 on Wednesday the 9th of February 2000
This advice affects people in the following weather districts:
South Coast
Southern Tablelands near and east of Cooma, Captains Flat and Bungendore.
Thunderstorms are forecast within this area this afternoon and early
evening. Some of these are expected to be severe bringing very heavy
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016
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:30:40 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jdeguara at ihug.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Sydney Western Suburbs heat
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Today was hotter than expected in the western suburbs of Sydney with
temperatures around 37 - 38C. If the heating continues, this is likely to
hit around the 40C mark.
It is quite possible that tomorrow Thursday may see some unsettled weather
to the south west and west of Sydney. I like the way the cumulus has built
up over the past couple of days and usually quite late probably due to a
stronger cap. With the trough approaching, and with more heat perhaps
severe storms may occur.
Hopefully this weather persists and is not driven away by the cold front.
Hail is a strong possibility. Boy do I need psychological help...
Jimmy Deguara
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017
X-Sender: disarm at mail.braenet.com.au
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 18:04:08 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Matt Smith [disarm at braenet.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Western Suburbs heat
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I agree totally Jimmy
I was only talking a few hours ago with Matt Pearce saying how I liked how
the cumulus was developing over the past 2 days, today it seemed to shoot
higher than yesterday along the ranges .. we will see what tomorrow and
friday bring, hopefully not too much cloud cover will spread down this way
from QLD. Also it was 35 here today, with hot temps forecast tomorrow as
well. You are right, we could see 40's out your way, and high 30's here.
Matt Smith
>Today was hotter than expected in the western suburbs of Sydney with
>temperatures around 37 - 38C. If the heating continues, this is likely to
>hit around the 40C mark.
>
>It is quite possible that tomorrow Thursday may see some unsettled weather
>to the south west and west of Sydney. I like the way the cumulus has built
>up over the past couple of days and usually quite late probably due to a
>stronger cap. With the trough approaching, and with more heat perhaps
>severe storms may occur.
>
>Hopefully this weather persists and is not driven away by the cold front.
>Hail is a strong possibility. Boy do I need psychological help...
>
>Jimmy Deguara
>
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
>
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018
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:41:36 +1030
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Andrew Wall [astroman at chariot.net.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Storms North, North, East of Adelaide
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hey all,
Nice line of storms developing near Adelaide ATM, frequent Lightning, and
nice looking so far on radar.
I probably won't be able to chase :(((((((((
Talk to ya soon,
Andrew Wall
ph (08) 828 545 90
South Australia.
State representative for S.A. and N.T. Division of the Australian Severe
Weather Association Inc.
Webmaster of The official South Australian Severe Weather watch homepage.
South Australian Severe Weather page - http://sastorms.virtualave.net
ASWA Inc. - http://www.severeweather.asn.au
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-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
019
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: 1528 STA for southern NSW
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:45:28 +1100
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I can however see the towers from here, yesterday and day before I could
only see the anvil shields. The closest tower which has gone up since 5pm is
probably less 150km away, around Braidwood or even Tarago perhaps.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: [Patrick_Tobin at ama.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 9 February 2000 18:10
Subject: Re: aus-wx: 1528 STA for southern NSW
>
>
> Hmm... activity in that region seems much less pronounced than the last
two
> days...
>
>
> Perhaps a spotter may have been struck by a stray hailstone ...?
>
>
>
>
>
> TOP PRIORITY FOR IMMEDIATE BROADCAST
>
> SEVERE THUNDERSTORM ADVICE
> BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
> NEW SOUTH WALES REGIONAL OFFICE
> Issued at 1528 on Wednesday the 9th of February 2000
>
> This advice affects people in the following weather districts:
>
> South Coast
> Southern Tablelands near and east of Cooma, Captains Flat and Bungendore.
>
> Thunderstorms are forecast within this area this afternoon and early
> evening. Some of these are expected to be severe bringing very heavy
>
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
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-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
020
From: "Max King" [mnk at Dingoblue.net.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Western Suburbs heat
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:00:25 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
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Hi all,
I was at Katoomba earlier today and ot actually looked for a while about
2.30pm like something was gonna happen. Oh well, better luck next time.
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Smith [disarm at braenet.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Western Suburbs heat
> I agree totally Jimmy
>
> I was only talking a few hours ago with Matt Pearce saying how I liked how
> the cumulus was developing over the past 2 days, today it seemed to shoot
> higher than yesterday along the ranges .. we will see what tomorrow and
> friday bring, hopefully not too much cloud cover will spread down this way
> from QLD. Also it was 35 here today, with hot temps forecast tomorrow as
> well. You are right, we could see 40's out your way, and high 30's here.
>
> Matt Smith
> >Today was hotter than expected in the western suburbs of Sydney with
> >temperatures around 37 - 38C. If the heating continues, this is likely to
> >hit around the 40C mark.
> >
> >It is quite possible that tomorrow Thursday may see some unsettled
weather
> >to the south west and west of Sydney. I like the way the cumulus has
built
> >up over the past couple of days and usually quite late probably due to a
> >stronger cap. With the trough approaching, and with more heat perhaps
> >severe storms may occur.
> >
> >Hopefully this weather persists and is not driven away by the cold front.
> >Hail is a strong possibility. Boy do I need psychological help...
> >
> >Jimmy Deguara
> >
> > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail
to:majordomo at world.std.com
> > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> > message.
> > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
> >
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021
From: "weatherhead" [weatherhead at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Williamtown radar
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:49:27 +1100
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when i was up at springwood i did see some really crisp looking congetus far
far away, maybe it was that.
daniel weatherhead
----- Original Message -----
From: Don White [donwhite at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Williamtown radar
> Jimmy,
> The area you referred to last Monday on the Williamtown radar and
> naturally also appeared on the composites (Syd large scale) was the 2nd
> or 3rd time I've noticed this in very humid NE conditions. Otherwise, no
> clues?
> Don W
>
> Jimmy Deguara wrote:
> >
> > I am starting to wonder about the Williamtown radar. Is there low level
> > stuff around in the area or is the radar drunk?? It did this yesterday
as
> > well indicating an area of shower activity. Normally I can see signs of
it
> > from where I live here at Schofields. Even the satpics don't really show
> > clouds consitent with the rainfall indicated - particularly today.
> >
> > Any comments?
> >
> > Jimmy Deguara
> >
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> > message.
> > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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| Document: 000209.htm
Updated: 12 February 2000 |
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