Storm Australian Severe Weather Forum
Severe Weather Discussion => Australian Severe Storms, Weather Events and Storm Chasing => Topic started by: Richary on 12 March 2009, 01:14:00 PM
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Just spotted this news item...
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25172357-2682,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25172357-2682,00.html)
A TORNADO has whipped across the Eyre Peninsula and forecasters are warning severe thunderstorms and flash flooding are imminent in the state's south-east.
The town of Cummins, about 50km north of Port Lincoln, received a massive 37mm of rain between 3.30pm and 4.30pm this afternoon as a tornado passed through the region.
It is not known if any damage was reported.
There is no mention of a tornado on the current BoM Severe Storm Warning though they do mention the rainfall. Time to look for some other reports.
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Some photos and an interview here:
http://blogs.abc.net.au/sa/2009/03/cummins-thunder.html (http://blogs.abc.net.au/sa/2009/03/cummins-thunder.html)
Looks like a landspout tornado maybe given the first shot shows more activity at the bottom.
<edit: just realised you can click on the photos for a higher res version>
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Richary,
Photos courtesy of the ABC blog website article
http://blogs.abc.net.au/sa/2009/03/cummins-thunder.html (http://blogs.abc.net.au/sa/2009/03/cummins-thunder.html)
(http://australiasevereweather.com/temp/forum/cummins_tornado2.jpg)
(http://australiasevereweather.com/temp/forum/cummins_tornado1.jpg)
Nice landspout - and further there is a lowered base in the vicinity of the landspout tornado. This would have spun up along a boundary.
Regards,
Jimmy Deguara
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Thanks Jimmy - the original heading "possible tornado" was taken on the basis of the original News Ltd article. Well they didn't say possible but I take anything I read there with a grain of salt until confirmed. Which is why I was glad I could find the photos and let more expert minds make a decision.
I did notice the base lowering, but also the sudden change of colour from cloud to dust. Still it would have been interesting to see in person. Hopefully if we are lucky some video will appear somewhere, have been checking youtube but nothing so far.
It is also worth noting there were no SES or other emergency service callouts to the area at the time apart from a possible fire started by a lightning strike, taken from this site http://www.sacfs.org/paging/ (http://www.sacfs.org/paging/) which monitors paging messages on the SA GRN. So any ground impact was either small or if it hit something didn't cause significant damage.
EDIT: I also don't understand some people - this guy saw what he believed was a tornado, now these things aren't that common in Australia - at least in the general public's minds. Even if I wasn't interested in storms I would still have driven that way to see the damage it might have caused and and see if anybody needed help. Putting on my uneducated hat - it's a tornado so it must have caused damage and could have killed people. Because that is what we see from the States. Tornado equals death and damage.
Edit JD: My clarification and changes is to ease any confusion and avoid any drift from the original topic - from a definitions perspective, a tornado is defined as a funnel cloud that makes contact from a cloud to the ground. The dynamics of the landspout tornado make them structurally different than the mesocyclonic tornado we typically associate with in the United States. My comments were not in any way made in response to the article itself or verification from the Bureau.
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Any damage would be to farmland.... eg. fences, trees, etc... apart from the town itself the area is not very populated...
BOM called it a tornado in this warning:
Australian Government Bureau of Meteorology
South Australia Regional Office
TOP PRIORITY FOR IMMEDIATE BROADCAST
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING
for FLASH FLOODING and DAMAGING WIND
For people in the Upper South East and Lower South East districts.
Issued at 5:42 pm Wednesday, 11 March 2009.
Severe thunderstorms are likely to produce very heavy rainfall and flash flooding in the warning area over the next several hours. There is also a risk of damaging wind gusts. Locations which may be affected include Mount Gambier, Naracoorte, Bordertown and Lucindale.
The thunderstorms over Lower Eyre Peninsula have weakened and the warning for this area is cancelled. A tornado was observed near Cummins and 37 mm of rain was recorded at Cummins Aerodrome between 3:30 pm and 4:30 pm today.
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Any damage would be to farmland.... eg. fences, trees, etc... apart from the town itself the area is not very populated...
Thanks, missed the earlier warning. They had dropped it by the 6:30-ish one. Agreed farmland would be the most likely target and yes do know the area as I used to live in Adelaide and spent a few times over there. But if it had hit a house we might have seen a call out, should have made that more clear. I have seen some storm damage pages for Mt Gambier and Renmark area, though the BoM winds aren't showing that strong.
(A few years ago Karoonda near Murray Bridge got hit, the following day I also saw a damage trail near Naracoorte - about 100m wide and branches to about 20cm snapped off on a long path with all these council guys cleaning up on a back road. Just as well it hit there as we were camped at Naracoorte Caves about 15km away, could have been interesting in a tent!)
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Some low quality mobile phone video has turned up here...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/12/2514200.htm?section=australia (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/12/2514200.htm?section=australia)
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Sorry - bee in my bonnet time here - but landspout tornado just isn't the right term. It is a double 'determiner' like saying a willy willy tornado or waterspout tornado or more abstractly a automobile car or aeroplane jet. Macca wrote about landspout formation earlier - so perhaps 'non supercell' tornado if we are convinced it was non-supercellular.
http://www.australiasevereweather.com/forum/general-weather-all-topics-that-are-not-current-severe-weather-should-be-posted-here/non-supercellular-tornadoes/ (http://www.australiasevereweather.com/forum/general-weather-all-topics-that-are-not-current-severe-weather-should-be-posted-here/non-supercellular-tornadoes/?action=printpage)
It is a nice pic....
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Have attached the aerological diagrams for Adelaide and Woomera which are both about the same distance from Cummins
Conditions at Woomera would be fairly representative of the storm environment further south through the Eyre Peninsula. There's some good turning evident. Would not surprise me if other storms had tornadoes that day too.
(http://australiasevereweather.com/storm_news/2009/thumbs/2009031100adelaide.png) (http://australiasevereweather.com/storm_news/2009/soundings/2009031100adelaide.png) (http://australiasevereweather.com/storm_news/2009/thumbs/2009031112adelaide.png) (http://australiasevereweather.com/storm_news/2009/soundings/2009031112adelaide.png) Adelaide
(http://australiasevereweather.com/storm_news/2009/thumbs/2009031100woomera.png) (http://australiasevereweather.com/storm_news/2009/soundings/2009031100woomera.png) (http://australiasevereweather.com/storm_news/2009/thumbs/2009031112woomera.png) (http://australiasevereweather.com/storm_news/2009/soundings/2009031112woomera.png) Woomera
---> 256km scale radar loop (http://www.theweatherchaser.com/radar-loop/IDR642-adelaide-buckland-park/2009-03-11-02/2009-03-11-08)
---> 512km scale radar loop (http://www.theweatherchaser.com/radar-loop/IDR641-adelaide-buckland-park/2009-03-11-02/2009-03-11-08)
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I was on that storm system that came through the Lower South East around 6:00pm the first cell was a HP (high precipitation) with not much potential for lightning even though i got caught in the core of it when rain was dumped
The second cell was slightly weaker but did managed to produce a rumble of thunder and 1 quick flash of lightning which my handheld video camera somehow caught but despite the huge let down in amongst all of the hype of this storm being really bad i did get some pics
Before anyone asks why the photos are so small its because i resized them so they didnt take up too much page space on here
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Hi all. A very nice inclusion for comment this landspout is. Some excellent storms and anyone who was on it would be pleased with the outcome! A spectacular thing to see when it's so much in view. The soundings are an added bonus, thanks MB.
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Thanks guys. Jimmy, no offence was taken at the edits of the title etc. Better to correct it to reality as the new information comes to light. People searching news.com.au will get the tornado version. People searching here will get the real version.
Michael - thanks for the radar loops. Shows the intensity near Cummins was fairly short lived with only one frame with a black spot. Do you think that could have been the landspout or was it more likely just a heavy rain/hail dump?
Some different video has also turned up at http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25174925-5006787,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25174925-5006787,00.html)
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I just want to get this straight for my own understanding... (as yer I'm still confused even though this subject has come up b4)
So because this storm was not a supercell, we cannot call it a tornado as such?
How many 'tornados' in the USA or elsewhere are actually 'landspouts' but get reported as tornados? In the media or otherwise?
If this landspout hit the town of Cummins and destroyed 50 homes with a dozen lives lost, are we still going to have to call it a landspout?
Is the BOM calling it a tornado just so that the general public (and the media) doesnt ask the question, 'Whats the difference?'
Edit: Who's comment were you refering Tim?
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Hi Tim - yes definitely call it a tornado - ie. a funnel cloud extending from cloud base AND impacting the ground. The other terms like landspout help categorise the processes that caused it - which weather enthusiasts are interested in of course.
regards, Michael
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Heres a couple of more pics which i took on Wednesday arvo of the storm front that came through Wednesday night but only had lighting embedded in the cloud
Just to add as of the 13/03/2009 i upgraded from a Nokia N95 to a Nokia N85 the newest mobile out but it still has a 5 megapixel camera but just better coverage on Optus ;-)
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Tim,
As noted earlier, this is a definite landspout tornado - non-supercellular - absolutely no doubt. I included a definition in an earlier post to clarify my reasoning. I concur also with your comments John.
Let's not get into the insecure arguments and "straw clutching" about the severity and importance of tornadoes from the past on other forums. Yes I know this is a tornado that occurred in South Australia and you are from memory from South Australia hence the importance in your terms. Irrelevant of location, tornadoes can be dangerous and damaging - just some due to their mechanisms are more dangerous and damaging than others. Supercellular tornadoes can achieve wind speeds that can make them the most potent of all tornado types.
(I will make it quite clear that my views and comments on this forum are NOT allowed to be discussed on other forums. Please let's get back on track and discuss news, information photographs and videos relating to the event. For any discussion, please begin a thread in the general weather section. Now back the Eyre Peninsula Landspout Tornado event).
Regards,
Jimmy Deguara
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Thanks John, Michael, & Jimmy for your comments & clarification.
Although Jimmy, I'm not sure you followed my post - I was never suggesting it wasnt a landspout, and yes the storm wasnt a supercell. Irrelevant of the location & severity, my post was only asking about the difference in relation to damage caused & also in regards to what the general public & media should be calling them.
As John mentioned, they have enough trouble getting over the 'mini' term so anything else apart from tornado is going to be even more confusing..
Meanwhile in regards to the actual event, I'm going to ask the SA BOM about how they are following up & investigating it, and what they come up with. If anything it will be good to report back to those in ASWA or on any forums, the actual reasons for this landspout, so that everyone can have a better understanding of the differences & the conditions of these events.....
Cheers, Tim.
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Very photogenic! Whoever got the pictures posted on that link couldn't have been in a better spot, thanks for sharing.
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Yes, a very impressive landspout tornado. While the term landspout is very useful for the weather fraternity I agree with the above comments in not providing the media with it.
We get the odd landspout funnel cloud in NZ but rarely anything that looks as impressive as this. In NZ sea breeze convergence often plays a key roll in their development.
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The funnel appearance would have been helped by where it formed. In an area that has had long periods of dry weather lately (if not still in drought), as well as being largely a red soil area (as you can see in the initial photos from the dirt road it was taken from). Hence the colour of the funnel.
So a lot more soil/dust would be picked up by a landspout there than something of similar strength in NZ or a wetter climate. The area does experience dust storms at times during the summer months.
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Ok Tim,
Fair enough comment - thanks for clarifying.
I also would like to recall Michael Bath's comment:
There's some good turning evident. Would not surprise me if other storms had tornadoes that day too.
In my opinion, and as suggested in the previous post, boundaries most likely were in place for the tornado to develop with such incredible structure. Unless the other storms interacted with boundaries, I think chances they were tornadic were prety low.
Regards,
Jimmy Deguara