http://australiasevereweather.com/


From: "Shane Williams" <switch76 at winshop.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: Cyclone Season Starts Nov 1- April 30
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:08:44 +1000
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Hi All,
     
       My Name is Shane.  May I just say that this is the best list I've
subscribed to.  Today marks the beginning of cyclone season.  With all
signs pointing to an El Nino event it maybe another slow year for
northern Australia.  I hope to see interesting events take place these
next 6 months and maybe a few close encounters too.  

Regards Shane.


Gold Coast Queensland
       


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From: "Simon Angell - www.canberra-wx.com" <simon at canberra-wx.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 01:12:46 +1100
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Hi Phil and all,
hasn't been water upto the road in 6 or 7 years, went past in August and
could see it off in the distance, went past last weekend couldn't see it at
all this time, but it doesn't take much to fill it really, at its deapest
(when full) point its only like 10m (i think).

Cheers
---------------------------------
Simon Angell
Canberra, ACT
www.canberra-wx.com
---------------------------------------------
Proud member of the
Australian Severe Weather Association.
www.severeweather.asn.au
--------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George


> "Lake George" is often a misnomer.  Some years, you drive past and the
> water is almost lapping the main road.  Other years it's as dry as a
> desert.  In between years you might see miles of paddocks with a puddle
> of water in the far distance.
> I haven't been past in the last 15 years, but I assume since the dust is
> being lifted that it is dry or almost dry at present.
>
> Phil
> <><
>
> International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
> Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
> Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
> Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Smith <tornado at cnn.net.au>
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:18:49 +1100
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
>
> > wow!
> > Sounds interesting Michael... I guess raised dust is not something you
> > would see
> > much of on a lake... would have been a sight to see.
> >
> > Matt Smith
> >
> > Michael Thompson wrote:
> >
> > > Was in Canberra yesterday and today and not expecting any real
> > weather did
> > > not take the digital.
> > >
> > > Bad mistake as around 3.30pm this afternoon was the sight of
> > localised dust
> > > being lifted over the SE corner of Lake George, it was lifted in very
> > sharp
> > > edged sheets and extended perhaps 100m into the air at highest.
> > Looked quite
> > > spectacular, largest would have been about 2kms long.
> > >
> > > Also noted that the hills east of Lake George were very brown and
> > drought
> > > affected, whilst the range just west is quite green ( in comparison
> > ). This
> > > was something I noticed two weeks ago on a similar Canberra trip,  a
> > sudden
> > > greening just south of Goulburn.
> > >
> > > Some virga around 3.15 near Canberra too.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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> > >
> > >
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> > >  message.
> > >
> > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
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From: "Simon Angell - www.canberra-wx.com" <simon at canberra-wx.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 01:47:56 +1100
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Come across this just now,
http://www.webone.com.au/~dougsden/lg/lg.htm
Some nice pics fron OCT 2002 here.
And these
http://www.nexus.edu.au/ozprojects/wetlands/lake_george.htm

And this might be of interest to some.
http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/stories/s118097.htm
http://image.ce.adfa.edu.au/research/LakeGeorge/web_html.htm

Cheers
---------------------------------
Simon Angell
Canberra, ACT
www.canberra-wx.com
---------------------------------------------
Proud member of the
Australian Severe Weather Association.
www.severeweather.asn.au
--------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Yole" <pyole at lexicon.net>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:10 PM
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George


> It neither goes to Mt Gambier of some secret cave. We got Jeff kennet
> working for us still, and he stole it like he also stole the Grand Prix
off
> South Australia...LOL (Although with Vic's water supplies as they
> are...Jeff...where did you exactly put the water???)
>
> PaulY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
> [mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Michael
> Thompson
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:54 AM
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
>
>
> It's funny you should say that as my first sight of the Lake was as a
young
> lad in the early 1960's. Similar story except my father said it was
> connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.
>
> Even though I was only 7 or 8 years old I was a keen rock collector and
> could not see how even then.
>
> I suppose people cannot pick long term trends as easily as short ones.
Like
> Lake George will slowly dry over a number of just slightly dry years,
> perhaps not even drought years, so they look at the green pastures and
> wonder where the water went.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Liam Domanski" <gashband at hotmail.com>
> To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
>
>
> > When I lived in Canberra years ago, there used to be a story going
around
> > how Lake George was connected by an underground cave system to Lach
Ness,
> > and that there had been monsters spotted cruising the lake!!!
> >
> >
> > Perhaps they drink all the water some years!
> >
> >
> > Liam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
> > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:39:48 +0800
> > >
> > >"Lake George" is often a misnomer.  Some years, you drive past and the
> > >water is almost lapping the main road.  Other years it's as dry as a
> > >desert.  In between years you might see miles of paddocks with a puddle
> > >of water in the far distance.
> > >I haven't been past in the last 15 years, but I assume since the dust
is
> > >being lifted that it is dry or almost dry at present.
> > >
> > >Phil
> > ><><
> > >
> > >International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
> > >Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
> > >Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
> > >Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Matthew Smith <tornado at cnn.net.au>
> > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:18:49 +1100
> > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > >
> > > > wow!
> > > > Sounds interesting Michael... I guess raised dust is not something
you
> > > > would see
> > > > much of on a lake... would have been a sight to see.
> > > >
> > > > Matt Smith
> > > >
> > > > Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Was in Canberra yesterday and today and not expecting any real
> > > > weather did
> > > > > not take the digital.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bad mistake as around 3.30pm this afternoon was the sight of
> > > > localised dust
> > > > > being lifted over the SE corner of Lake George, it was lifted in
> very
> > > > sharp
> > > > > edged sheets and extended perhaps 100m into the air at highest.
> > > > Looked quite
> > > > > spectacular, largest would have been about 2kms long.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also noted that the hills east of Lake George were very brown and
> > > > drought
> > > > > affected, whilst the range just west is quite green ( in
comparison
> > > > ). This
> > > > > was something I noticed two weeks ago on a similar Canberra trip,
a
> > > > sudden
> > > > > greening just south of Goulburn.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some virga around 3.15 near Canberra too.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > > Version: 6.0.406 / Virus Database: 229 - Release Date: 21/10/02
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
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of
> > > > your
> > > > >  message.
> > > > >
> > >
> > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
>   -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au-----------------------------
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> > >
> > >
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> > >  message.
> >
  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>
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>


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From: "macdonald" <sclmacdonald at optusnet.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: Deforestation & Effects on Climate
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:58:30 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV>Hello All,</DIV>
<DIV>I have been reading a text and email that i received from 
the&nbsp;chief&nbsp;of the CSIRO Atmospheric Research devision.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I have been interested in the effects of deforestation upon the regional 
climate. The New England is a perfect example, only have to look at the high 
basalt plateau around the Guyra- Ben Lomond area. I have seen photos of mother 
of ducks lagoon at Guyra in the early 1900s. It was thick with timber, and the 
lagoon was deep enough for a paddlesteamer. New England suffered from my dieback 
in the early 80s and late 70's, due to infestation of Christmas beetle larve... 
probably due to the high nutrient levels from the super phosphate. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The Guyra observer, Jeff, once said that he thinks that the winters in 
Guyra are not as cold as they used to be. It is hard know whether the climate is 
warming. I personaly believe that the climate goes through cycles. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>"If forests are removed and replaced by pasture, the reflectivity may rise 
by 10 % or more, depending on soil types ( dark soils would absorb more 
reflective light), vegetation that replaces the forest. Energy input to the 
region that is deforested is decreased, hence changing the regional 
climate.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Forests on the earth's surface, cause areodynamic drag that slows the 
movement of air masses over the earth's surface.&nbsp; Removal of the forests 
and the replacement of them by pastures, leads to a signifcant change in drag 
and this influences the climate systems."</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Cheers</DIV>
<DIV>Sam</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>


</x-html>

From: Blair Trewin <blair at earthsci.unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:23:51 +1100 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3]
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com


I thought it was 'supposed' to be connected to a lake somewhere in
New Zealand :-) (Actually, these legends may really be a manifestation
of the fact that rainfall in this region is strongly related to 
ENSO, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Lake George tended to be low
in periods when a lake somewhere in the world that gets more rain
during El Nino events is high, and vice versa).

Lake George also tends to respond to rainfall anomalies on the
multi-year timescale. It was very high during the wet periods of 
the mid-70s and late 80s/early 90s. Prior to the last year or so, 
1982 was the only time since the 60s that it had been completely
dry (and then only briefly), but I believe it was dry or mostly
dry for about 15 years in the 20s/30s. 

(It's also very sensitive to evaporation; during the last Ice Age it
was much deeper (20-30 metres) than it is now, despite lower 
rainfall).

In 1982 the ACT Cross Country Club ran a race across it. I'm not 
sure if they have any plans for a repeat performance this year.

Blair

> It neither goes to Mt Gambier of some secret cave. We got Jeff kennet
> working for us still, and he stole it like he also stole the Grand Prix off
> South Australia...LOL (Although with Vic's water supplies as they
> are...Jeff...where did you exactly put the water???)
> 
> PaulY
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
> [mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Michael
> Thompson
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:54 AM
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> 
> 
> It's funny you should say that as my first sight of the Lake was as a young
> lad in the early 1960's. Similar story except my father said it was
> connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.
> 
> Even though I was only 7 or 8 years old I was a keen rock collector and
> could not see how even then.
> 
> I suppose people cannot pick long term trends as easily as short ones. Like
> Lake George will slowly dry over a number of just slightly dry years,
> perhaps not even drought years, so they look at the green pastures and
> wonder where the water went.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Liam Domanski" <gashband at hotmail.com>
> To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> 
> 
> > When I lived in Canberra years ago, there used to be a story going around
> > how Lake George was connected by an underground cave system to Lach Ness,
> > and that there had been monsters spotted cruising the lake!!!
> >
> >
> > Perhaps they drink all the water some years!
> >
> >
> > Liam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
> > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:39:48 +0800
> > >
> > >"Lake George" is often a misnomer.  Some years, you drive past and the
> > >water is almost lapping the main road.  Other years it's as dry as a
> > >desert.  In between years you might see miles of paddocks with a puddle
> > >of water in the far distance.
> > >I haven't been past in the last 15 years, but I assume since the dust is
> > >being lifted that it is dry or almost dry at present.
> > >
> > >Phil
> > ><><
> > >
> > >International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
> > >Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
> > >Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
> > >Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Matthew Smith <tornado at cnn.net.au>
> > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:18:49 +1100
> > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > >
> > > > wow!
> > > > Sounds interesting Michael... I guess raised dust is not something you
> > > > would see
> > > > much of on a lake... would have been a sight to see.
> > > >
> > > > Matt Smith
> > > >
> > > > Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Was in Canberra yesterday and today and not expecting any real
> > > > weather did
> > > > > not take the digital.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bad mistake as around 3.30pm this afternoon was the sight of
> > > > localised dust
> > > > > being lifted over the SE corner of Lake George, it was lifted in
> very
> > > > sharp
> > > > > edged sheets and extended perhaps 100m into the air at highest.
> > > > Looked quite
> > > > > spectacular, largest would have been about 2kms long.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also noted that the hills east of Lake George were very brown and
> > > > drought
> > > > > affected, whilst the range just west is quite green ( in comparison
> > > > ). This
> > > > > was something I noticed two weeks ago on a similar Canberra trip,  a
> > > > sudden
> > > > > greening just south of Goulburn.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some virga around 3.15 near Canberra too.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > > Version: 6.0.406 / Virus Database: 229 - Release Date: 21/10/02
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
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> > > > >  To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail
> > > > to:majordomo at world.std.com
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> > > > your
> > > > >  message.
> > > > >
> > >
> > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
>   -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au-----------------------------
> > > > -
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> > >  message.
> > >  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ---
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X-Sender: jdeguara at australiasevereweather.com at mail.australiasevereweather.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:10:13 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara <jdeguara at australiasevereweather.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com


<x-flowed>
Hi Blair,

Thanks for that tremendous insight even if it did destroy some tales.

Jimmy Deguara

At 12:23 PM 1/11/2002 +1100, you wrote:
>I thought it was 'supposed' to be connected to a lake somewhere in
>New Zealand :-) (Actually, these legends may really be a manifestation
>of the fact that rainfall in this region is strongly related to
>ENSO, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Lake George tended to be low
>in periods when a lake somewhere in the world that gets more rain
>during El Nino events is high, and vice versa).
>
>Lake George also tends to respond to rainfall anomalies on the
>multi-year timescale. It was very high during the wet periods of
>the mid-70s and late 80s/early 90s. Prior to the last year or so,
>1982 was the only time since the 60s that it had been completely
>dry (and then only briefly), but I believe it was dry or mostly
>dry for about 15 years in the 20s/30s.
>
>(It's also very sensitive to evaporation; during the last Ice Age it
>was much deeper (20-30 metres) than it is now, despite lower
>rainfall).
>
>In 1982 the ACT Cross Country Club ran a race across it. I'm not
>sure if they have any plans for a repeat performance this year.
>
>Blair
>
> > It neither goes to Mt Gambier of some secret cave. We got Jeff kennet
> > working for us still, and he stole it like he also stole the Grand Prix off
> > South Australia...LOL (Although with Vic's water supplies as they
> > are...Jeff...where did you exactly put the water???)
> >
> > PaulY
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
> > [mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Michael
> > Thompson
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:54 AM
> > To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> >
> >
> > It's funny you should say that as my first sight of the Lake was as a young
> > lad in the early 1960's. Similar story except my father said it was
> > connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.
> >
> > Even though I was only 7 or 8 years old I was a keen rock collector and
> > could not see how even then.
> >
> > I suppose people cannot pick long term trends as easily as short ones. Like
> > Lake George will slowly dry over a number of just slightly dry years,
> > perhaps not even drought years, so they look at the green pastures and
> > wonder where the water went.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Liam Domanski" <gashband at hotmail.com>
> > To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> >
> >
> > > When I lived in Canberra years ago, there used to be a story going around
> > > how Lake George was connected by an underground cave system to Lach Ness,
> > > and that there had been monsters spotted cruising the lake!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps they drink all the water some years!
> > >
> > >
> > > Liam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
> > > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:39:48 +0800
> > > >
> > > >"Lake George" is often a misnomer.  Some years, you drive past and the
> > > >water is almost lapping the main road.  Other years it's as dry as a
> > > >desert.  In between years you might see miles of paddocks with a puddle
> > > >of water in the far distance.
> > > >I haven't been past in the last 15 years, but I assume since the dust is
> > > >being lifted that it is dry or almost dry at present.
> > > >
> > > >Phil
> > > ><><
> > > >
> > > >International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
> > > >Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Matthew Smith <tornado at cnn.net.au>
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:18:49 +1100
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >
> > > > > wow!
> > > > > Sounds interesting Michael... I guess raised dust is not 
> something you
> > > > > would see
> > > > > much of on a lake... would have been a sight to see.
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt Smith
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Was in Canberra yesterday and today and not expecting any real
> > > > > weather did
> > > > > > not take the digital.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bad mistake as around 3.30pm this afternoon was the sight of
> > > > > localised dust
> > > > > > being lifted over the SE corner of Lake George, it was lifted in
> > very
> > > > > sharp
> > > > > > edged sheets and extended perhaps 100m into the air at highest.
> > > > > Looked quite
> > > > > > spectacular, largest would have been about 2kms long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also noted that the hills east of Lake George were very brown and
> > > > > drought
> > > > > > affected, whilst the range just west is quite green ( in comparison
> > > > > ). This
> > > > > > was something I noticed two weeks ago on a similar Canberra 
> trip,  a
> > > > > sudden
> > > > > > greening just south of Goulburn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some virga around 3.15 near Canberra too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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> > > > > >
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> > >
> > >
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</x-flowed>
From: "Jane ONeill" <cadence at australianskynweather.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:23:01 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com


I remember going on a fieldtrip to Lake George in either 1st or 2nd year
Uni - we were taking soil cores from the northwestern shore of the Lake
(which during 1975/76 was very close to the road, with the ground being
generally sodden if I remember correctly - footrot was rife in the area) - I
remember the sleet that day, oddly far better than I remember the soil cores
<g>.  I'll dig out my history books and see what I can glean from the locah
historians of the region as there are a number of mentions of Lake George
and its disappearing act over the last ~100 years.

Jane
--------------------------------
Jane ONeill - Melbourne
cadence at australianskynweather.com

Australian Sky and Weather
www.stormchasers.au.com

ASWA - Victoria
http://www.severeweather.asn.au
--------------------------------

> I thought it was 'supposed' to be connected to a lake somewhere in
> New Zealand :-) (Actually, these legends may really be a manifestation
> of the fact that rainfall in this region is strongly related to
> ENSO, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Lake George tended to be low
> in periods when a lake somewhere in the world that gets more rain
> during El Nino events is high, and vice versa).
>
> Lake George also tends to respond to rainfall anomalies on the
> multi-year timescale. It was very high during the wet periods of
> the mid-70s and late 80s/early 90s. Prior to the last year or so,
> 1982 was the only time since the 60s that it had been completely
> dry (and then only briefly), but I believe it was dry or mostly
> dry for about 15 years in the 20s/30s.
>
> (It's also very sensitive to evaporation; during the last Ice Age it
> was much deeper (20-30 metres) than it is now, despite lower
> rainfall).
>
> In 1982 the ACT Cross Country Club ran a race across it. I'm not
> sure if they have any plans for a repeat performance this year.
>
> Blair
>
> > It neither goes to Mt Gambier of some secret cave. We got Jeff kennet
> > working for us still, and he stole it like he also stole the Grand Prix
off
> > South Australia...LOL (Although with Vic's water supplies as they
> > are...Jeff...where did you exactly put the water???)
> >
> > PaulY
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
> > [mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Michael
> > Thompson
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:54 AM
> > To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> >
> >
> > It's funny you should say that as my first sight of the Lake was as a
young
> > lad in the early 1960's. Similar story except my father said it was
> > connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.
> >
> > Even though I was only 7 or 8 years old I was a keen rock collector and
> > could not see how even then.
> >
> > I suppose people cannot pick long term trends as easily as short ones.
Like
> > Lake George will slowly dry over a number of just slightly dry years,
> > perhaps not even drought years, so they look at the green pastures and
> > wonder where the water went.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Liam Domanski" <gashband at hotmail.com>
> > To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> >
> >
> > > When I lived in Canberra years ago, there used to be a story going
around
> > > how Lake George was connected by an underground cave system to Lach
Ness,
> > > and that there had been monsters spotted cruising the lake!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps they drink all the water some years!
> > >
> > >
> > > Liam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
> > > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:39:48 +0800
> > > >
> > > >"Lake George" is often a misnomer.  Some years, you drive past and
the
> > > >water is almost lapping the main road.  Other years it's as dry as a
> > > >desert.  In between years you might see miles of paddocks with a
puddle
> > > >of water in the far distance.
> > > >I haven't been past in the last 15 years, but I assume since the dust
is
> > > >being lifted that it is dry or almost dry at present.
> > > >
> > > >Phil
> > > ><><
> > > >
> > > >International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
> > > >Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Matthew Smith <tornado at cnn.net.au>
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:18:49 +1100
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >
> > > > > wow!
> > > > > Sounds interesting Michael... I guess raised dust is not something
you
> > > > > would see
> > > > > much of on a lake... would have been a sight to see.
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt Smith
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Was in Canberra yesterday and today and not expecting any real
> > > > > weather did
> > > > > > not take the digital.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bad mistake as around 3.30pm this afternoon was the sight of
> > > > > localised dust
> > > > > > being lifted over the SE corner of Lake George, it was lifted in
> > very
> > > > > sharp
> > > > > > edged sheets and extended perhaps 100m into the air at highest.
> > > > > Looked quite
> > > > > > spectacular, largest would have been about 2kms long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also noted that the hills east of Lake George were very brown
and
> > > > > drought
> > > > > > affected, whilst the range just west is quite green ( in
comparison
> > > > > ). This
> > > > > > was something I noticed two weeks ago on a similar Canberra
trip,  a
> > > > > sudden
> > > > > > greening just south of Goulburn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some virga around 3.15 near Canberra too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > > > Version: 6.0.406 / Virus Database: 229 - Release Date: 21/10/02
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
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body of
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> > > > > >  message.
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> > > >
> >
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > > > >
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  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > >
> > >
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> > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
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  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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> >
> >
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From: "Stargazer" <stargazer at picknowl.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:18:08 +1030
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com


<snip>
We got Jeff kennet
> working for us still, and he stole it like he also stole the Grand Prix
off
> South Australia...LOL

<snip>
Similar story except my father said it was
> connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.

Looks like that Jeff Kennet is still up to his old tricks... Now he's
pinching whole *Cities* from South Australia!!! :(

:)  LOL

Regs. Paul.
(Stargazer)
http://homepages.picknowl.com.au/stargazer


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Yole" <pyole at lexicon.net>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:40 PM
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George


> It neither goes to Mt Gambier of some secret cave. We got Jeff kennet
> working for us still, and he stole it like he also stole the Grand Prix
off
> South Australia...LOL (Although with Vic's water supplies as they
> are...Jeff...where did you exactly put the water???)
>
> PaulY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
> [mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Michael
> Thompson
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:54 AM
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
>
>
> It's funny you should say that as my first sight of the Lake was as a
young
> lad in the early 1960's. Similar story except my father said it was
> connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.
>
> Even though I was only 7 or 8 years old I was a keen rock collector and
> could not see how even then.
>
> I suppose people cannot pick long term trends as easily as short ones.
Like
> Lake George will slowly dry over a number of just slightly dry years,
> perhaps not even drought years, so they look at the green pastures and
> wonder where the water went.



 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
 To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

From: "Jane ONeill" <cadence at australianskynweather.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:54:13 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com


Evening all,

a little light reading about the Lake and the landscape in which it is
set, taken from the wonderful book "The Face of Australia" Charles F
Laseron 1957 (3 scanned pages)

http://www.stormchasers.au.com/Archives/lakeg1a.jpg
http://www.stormchasers.au.com/Archives/lakeg2a.jpg
http://www.stormchasers.au.com/Archives/lakeg3a.jpg

Jane

--------------------------------
Jane ONeill - Melbourne
cadence at australianskynweather.com

Australian Sky & Weather
http://www.stormchasers.au.com

Australian Severe Weather Assocn (ASWA)
http://www.severeweather.asn.au
--------------------------------





----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Thompson" <thunder at ozthunder.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George


> It's funny you should say that as my first sight of the Lake was as a
young
> lad in the early 1960's. Similar story except my father said it was
> connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.
>
> Even though I was only 7 or 8 years old I was a keen rock collector
and
> could not see how even then.
>
> I suppose people cannot pick long term trends as easily as short ones.
Like
> Lake George will slowly dry over a number of just slightly dry years,
> perhaps not even drought years, so they look at the green pastures and
> wonder where the water went.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Liam Domanski" <gashband at hotmail.com>
> To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
>
>
> > When I lived in Canberra years ago, there used to be a story going
around
> > how Lake George was connected by an underground cave system to Lach
Ness,
> > and that there had been monsters spotted cruising the lake!!!
> >
> >
> > Perhaps they drink all the water some years!
> >
> >
> > Liam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
> > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:39:48 +0800
> > >
> > >"Lake George" is often a misnomer.  Some years, you drive past and
the
> > >water is almost lapping the main road.  Other years it's as dry as
a
> > >desert.  In between years you might see miles of paddocks with a
puddle
> > >of water in the far distance.
> > >I haven't been past in the last 15 years, but I assume since the
dust is
> > >being lifted that it is dry or almost dry at present.
> > >
> > >Phil
> > ><><
> > >
> > >International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
> > >Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
> > >Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
> > >Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Matthew Smith <tornado at cnn.net.au>
> > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:18:49 +1100
> > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > >
> > > > wow!
> > > > Sounds interesting Michael... I guess raised dust is not
something you
> > > > would see
> > > > much of on a lake... would have been a sight to see.
> > > >
> > > > Matt Smith
> > > >
> > > > Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Was in Canberra yesterday and today and not expecting any real
> > > > weather did
> > > > > not take the digital.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bad mistake as around 3.30pm this afternoon was the sight of
> > > > localised dust
> > > > > being lifted over the SE corner of Lake George, it was lifted
in
> very
> > > > sharp
> > > > > edged sheets and extended perhaps 100m into the air at
highest.
> > > > Looked quite
> > > > > spectacular, largest would have been about 2kms long.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also noted that the hills east of Lake George were very brown
and
> > > > drought
> > > > > affected, whilst the range just west is quite green ( in
comparison
> > > > ). This
> > > > > was something I noticed two weeks ago on a similar Canberra
trip,  a
> > > > sudden
> > > > > greening just south of Goulburn.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some virga around 3.15 near Canberra too.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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21/10/02
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> > > > >
> > > >
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From: "Jane ONeill" <cadence at australianskynweather.com>
To: "Aussie-wx" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: supercells... how to recognize them...?
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 20:57:27 +1100
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Some more interesting and thought provoking discussion borrowed from the
wx-chase list based in the USA for those of you who aren't
involved...seems that everyone's interested in the 'definition'........

<begin thread>
------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:49:18 -0500
From:    "Dickson, Dan" <Dan.Dickson at QWEST.COM>
Subject: Re: supercells... how to recognize them...?

This might be is a stupid question, but I'm curious:  when stormchasing,
is there any way to visually know you are looking at a supercell, as
opposed to just a regular cell w/anvil etc.?  I remember reading in a
chase report that the chaser (i don't remember who or where this was)
could "see that the cell was supercellular".  Isn't the technical
definition just that the updraft is of a certain strength?  Are there
any indicators out in the field that a cell is a supercell?  What about
when looking at a radar image?

-=dan, so many dumb questions, so little time...

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:05:54 -0600
From:    Lon Curtis <curtis at VVM.COM>
Subject: supercells... how to recognize them...?

"Dickson, Dan" wrote:

> This might be is a stupid question, but I'm curious:  when
stormchasing, is
> there any way to visually know you are looking at a supercell, as
opposed to
> just a regular cell w/anvil etc.?  I remember reading in a chase
report that
> the chaser (i don't remember who or where this was) could "see that
the cell
> was supercellular".  Isn't the technical definition just that the
updraft is
> of a certain strength?  Are there any indicators out in the field that
a
> cell is a supercell?  What about when looking at a radar image?

=

    Let me answer the last question first ...

    The general definition of a supercell is a thunderstorm that has a
persistent mesocyclone. A mesocyclone can be detected by doppler radar
utilizing either algorithms that search the volume scan for velocity
data satisfying a predetermined structure, or by human interpretation of
velocity products, in particular, velocity products adjusted for
storm-relative motion. The presence of a mesocyclone can also be
inferred from radar imagery (not restricted to doppler data) showing the
presence of a persistent BWER (bounded weak echo region), which is
generally interpreted to depict the very intense updraft which causes
hydrometeors (rain, graupel, hail) to remain well aloft above the
updraft. A pendant or hook echo is often seen in association with
supercell storms. The hook echo is now thought to be caused by a thin
curtain of hydrometors (usually rain) wrapping around the "back" side of
the mesocyclone.

    I'll let everyone 'chew' on those thoughts while I work on the first
question.

Lon Curtis

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:14:40 -0600
From:    Lon Curtis <curtis at VVM.COM>
Subject: supercells... how to recognize them...?

"Dickson, Dan" wrote:

> This might be is a stupid question, but I'm curious:  when
stormchasing, is
> there any way to visually know you are looking at a supercell, as
opposed to
> just a regular cell w/anvil etc.?  I remember reading in a chase
report that
> the chaser (i don't remember who or where this was) could "see that
the cell
> was supercellular".  Isn't the technical definition just that the
updraft is
> of a certain strength?  Are there any indicators out in the field that
a
> cell is a supercell?  What about when looking at a radar image?

=

    Answering the initial question ...

    Probably the most useful visual clue that a storm is a supercell is
the presence of a PERSISTENT ROTATING wall cloud. I emphasize that the
wall cloud must be both persistent and rotating. The wall cloud is
thought to be the lower extension of the "rotating" updraft that is
detected by radar as a mesocyclone, so in one sense, you could say that
rotating wall cloud equals mesocyclone, and therefore, confirms a the
storm is a supercell. However, there are many supercells that do not
have a visible wall cloud, and some produce tornadoes without a visible
wall cloud.

    Other visual features that can HELP in identifying a supercell are:
overshooting top above intense convective tower, the presence of a
back-sheared anvil, often with knuckles protruding toward the upwind
side of the storm, inflow bands that appear to spiral into the storm
core, and striations of the main cloud tower that suggest rotation.

    There are probably others, and perhaps we will hear from others on
the list with their thoughts on this question.

Lon Curtis

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:23:43 -0800
From:    Michael Cohen <cohenftw at EV1.NET>
Subject: Re: supercells... how to recognize them...?

Dan,

One major updraft is a good visual clue.Banding around the storm showing
rotation. Overshooting top with a smooth sharp anvil and knuckles on the
back side of the storm.How about a rainfree base with a rotating wall
cloud. Beaver tail with midlevel inflow jets. This is a good start.

Michael Cohen

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:47:12 +0000
From:    Shane Adams <shanestorm at HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: supercells... how to recognize them...?

The main distinguising factor in my opinion, like Michael said, is ONE
updraft. You can have a severe multi-cell cluster happening with
numerous, vigorous updrafts.....but in various stages of development;
intensifying, mature, decaying, and everything in between. A supercell
updraft is dominant, rogue, and extremely volatile. Also, sometimes you
can discern a rotational characteristic in the updraft, which is
referred to loosely as a "barber pole", and sometimes you can actually
see the physical "lean" of this feature; the mid-upper level winds
blowing the top portion of the updraft further downwind than the bottom,
letting precip fall free of the updraft's heart, allowing warm moist air
to continously pour in (which is what keeps them humming along for hours
at a time). It's a truly beautiful and amazing process.

As far as supercell types, they all have the dominant updraft. Here are
some distinguishing factors found with each variety:

Classic: To me, one of the most tell-tale signs of a classic is the
presence of a distinct flanking line. Also, the rain/hail core will be
next to the updraft area, with a (possible) inflow feeder coming in from
the opposite side as the flanking line.

Low-precipitation: Where classics often have flanking lines, LPs often
have a "cut-off", or tiered edge. The inflow cascades up the the back
side into the updraft, creating a beautiful, sculpted edge.

High-precipitation: These are just big nasty blobs of rotating love.
Often times they'll have two precip areas, associated with both their
RFD and FFD. They don't like to follow the classic supercell pattern of
rain/heavy
rain/hail/giant/hail/tornado. These guys can put down a love tube on
their front flank or their RFD, and they don't always give you warning
signs like hail before the tornado. Ask anyone who was driving down I-40
near Lela, TX on June 11, 1997.

These are just a few observations that I've noted from personal
experience; I'm sure some of the veteran guys could greatly expound on
this. Looking foward to seeing some of those posts.


Shane Adams
http://www.passiontwist.net

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:10:47 -0600
From:    Lon Curtis <curtis at VVM.COM>
Subject: Re: supercells... how to recognize them...?

Shane Adams wrote:

> The main distinguising factor in my opinion, like Michael said, is ONE
> updraft. You can have a severe multi-cell cluster happening with
numerous,
> vigorous updrafts.....but in various stages of development;
intensifying,
> mature, decaying, and everything in between. A supercell updraft is
> dominant, rogue, and extremely volatile.

=

     I beg to differ on this "one" updraft concept. The question was
about visual and radar clues for identifying a supercell and I don't
think it helps anyone to suggest that you can discern how many updrafts
a storm has visually, although sometimes a very talented radar operator
may be able to do so using the many tools associated with doppler radar.
Updrafts are mostly composed of air containing water vapor and neither
the human eye nor radar (in reflectivity mode) detect water vapor. In
fact, the flanking line cited by Shane is composed of cloud features
that contain water vapor that has been condensed (into fine particles of
water, what we call "clouds"). Within these features, there are distinct
updrafts that may be carrying water vapor high into the atmosphere (and
at very high velocities), but the human eye sees only the condensed
water in the form of clouds.

    I would subscribe to the notion that the supercell represents a
storm that has single "dominant"  updraft. But keep in mind that in some
instances, the flanking line may feed replacement updrafts into the
supercell storm, with each succeeding updraft becoming the "dominant"
updraft.

Lon Curtis

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:07:07 -0600
From:    Sam Barricklow <k5kj at PULSE.NET>
Subject: VLF Lightning Sounds and supercell appearance

Since chasing is slow, here is something for chasers who are also
lightning buffs.

Listen to the audio files at:

http://www.spaceweathersounds.com/sndbites.htm

And, go to the following URL to see a supercell from start to finish:

http://www.k5kj.net/010601.htm
and
http://www.k5kj.net/990503.htm

Note the hard edge to the anvil and the inflow band extending to the
left:
http://www.k5kj.net/99053101.jpg

The hard anvil edge is apparent on several images at:
http://www.k5kj.net/990516.htm

And, for rotating updrafts, check this one out:
http://www.k5kj.net/lamesa06.jpg

Here's a supercell at night.  This one was producing a 1/2 mile wide
tornado at the time.
http://www.k5kj.net/920615cx.jpg
more are at
http://www.k5kj.net/920615.htm

Sam

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:15:09 -0800
From:    Bill Combes <billcombes at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: supercells... how to recognize them...?

Definition from the NWS in Norman:

*Supercell - A thunderstorm with a persistent rotating updraft.
Supercells are rare, but are responsible for a remarkably high
percentage of severe weather events - especially tornadoes, extremely
large hail and damaging straight-line winds. They frequently travel to
the right of the main environmental winds (i.e., they are right movers).
Radar characteristics often (but not always) include a hook or pendant,
bounded weak echo region (BWER), V-notch, mesocyclone, and sometimes a
TVS. Visual characteristics often include a rain-free base (with or
without a wall cloud), tail cloud, flanking line, overshooting top, and
back-sheared anvil, all of which normally are observed in or near the
right rear or southwest part of the storm (Fig. 7). Storms exhibiting
these characteristics often are called classic supercells; however HP
storms (Fig. 3) and LP storms (Fig. 5) also are supercell varieties
####


I want to comment on the use of the term supercell without getting
flamed.  In my opinion, the term is used more often than it should be.
I've seen small storms with a rain free base described as a supercell
just because it had a rain free base.  I use a
combination of techniques in my analysis of whether or not a storm is
exhibiting supercellular characteristics.  Satellite really helps in my
opinion. Radar, storm motion, and visuals combined are a great way to
make a determination.

Anyhow, there are a few great papers by Doswell on this topic.  Great
discussion for the off season.

- Bill Combes
www.f5tornadosafaris.com
www.anythingweather.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 1 Nov 2002 02:22:22 +0000
From:    Shane Adams <shanestorm at HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: supercells... how to recognize them...?

<<<I would subscribe to the notion that the supercell represents a storm
that has single "dominant"  updraft.>>>

That's what I was referring to. Perhaps I should've made myself more
clear. I used the multicell updraft comparison to show that supercells
have one dominant updraft VS the multiple updrafts in a multicell.


<<<The question was about visual and radar clues for identifying a
supercell and I don't think it helps anyone to suggest that you can
discern how many updrafts a storm has visually, although sometimes a
very talented radar operator may be able to do so using the many tools
associated with doppler radar.>>>

You don't think describing how to identify dominant supercell updrafts
is helpful as a visual clue? It's very possible to discern a dominant
supercell updraft visually, otherwise there wouldn't be a lot of
successful chasers. And if someone can show a new chaser how to identify
a dominant updraft in the field, then I'd say that person has been
helped along pretty well.


Shane Adams
http://www.passiontwist.net

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:56:17 -0500
From:    Ed Verkaik <verkaik at SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: supercells... how to recognize them...?

From: "Bill Combes" <billcombes at YAHOO.COM>
> I want to comment on the use of the term supercell
> without getting flamed.  In my opinion, the term is
> used more often than it should be.

Both "supercell" and "wall cloud" are regularly overused, even by some
veteran chasetrs. It's only human nature for a chaser to want a storm or
lowering to be this way. Exaggeration is part of the story, even when
we're talking to ourselves!

Up close under a supercell, most of the proof depends on the wall cloud
or other evidence of rotation. Most other features can occur with
intense multicell or even pulse storms. Factors like longevity, size,
and motion (deviant) are fairly convincing but features like overshoot,
knuckles, etc. are often brief and associated with one particularly
strong phase in a storm. Persistence is key.

From a distance, the clues are tougher. The anvil's smoothness (no
"flakes"), sharpness and density (dark near edge) and uniformity are
good clues. Supercells also have very persistent static, with lots of
shorter crackles, and uniform activity over time. If you can see the
updraft region, towers rising in the main updraft are often very close
together, i.e. they are steeply "staircased." A short flanking line is
also a good indicator, especially for LP supercells. A sharp backsheared
anvil is good as long as you know winds aloft are strong, since anvils
will spread upwind easily in lighter flow (like summer).

I would add that supercells tend to be fairly "tidy" and concentrated in
appearance. All visible elements line up, belong together, seem to be
operating as one system. Strong storms have subsidence around them that
cause smaller cumulus to evaporate. A sudden decrease in smaller clouds
near a storm may indicate the onset of a severe phase.

If all else fails, you can wait for Weatheradio tornado warnings.  :-)
EdV

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:49:04 -0600
From:    Chris Novy <chris at SIU.EDU>
Subject: Re: supercells... how to recognize them...?

Ed Verkaik <verkaik at SYMPATICO.CA> writes...

>Both "supercell" and "wall cloud" are regularly overused, even by some
>veteran chasetrs. It's only human nature for a chaser to want a storm
or
>lowering to be this way. Exaggeration is part of the story, even when
>we're talking to ourselves!

Ed makes an excellent point and it's one I plan on addressing more in my
SKYWARN talks next year  --assuming the next ice age hasn't arrived.
I've seen a tendency for spotters and chasers to automatically label any
big storm which is not a squall line as being a supercell. In term of
spotting this isn't directly a problem since NWS does not issue
supercell warnings.  Where I've seen trouble, however, is when spotters
assume they are looking at a supercell and then try to fit what they are
actually
seeing with the conceptual model of  supercell.  Here, a roll cloud
(outflow-related) is perceived as a beavers tail (inflow-related) and
isolated lowerings become wall clouds.  A patch of lighter sky becomes a
clear slot.  Once a spotter is convinced that his/her storm is something
special it's my belief that they are more likely to interpret other
features such as dust and low hanging clouds as signs of tornado
development.

When training spotters I'm always careful to stress that they watch
things for a while and that they don't jump to conclusions based on a
single observation.  For instance, while power flashes can be associated
with tornadoes striking power lines they can also be caused by
lightning-related power surges, wind-blown trees with overgrown branches
making contact with the lines, and even drunk drivers striking phone
poles.   Low clouds with rotation may or may not be a wall cloud and
even if they *are* a wall cloud the rotation may not be significant in
and of itself.

Since most  of the storms I get to see are HP in nature and have little
if any visible structure, I tend to rely a lot of radar to get an idea
what's going on.  Products like SWIFT, StormLab, and WeatherTap can
really be helpful in determining what exactly you are looking at ad
positioning yourself in the right part of the storm to see a tornado and
avoid being slammed by hail.

For me, I chase to see interesting clouds.  Tornadoes are
incidental --andb rare.  I'm less interested in what kind of storm I'm
looking at and more interested in being in a position to get good stable
video of it and keep up with it.

..Chris..

--------------------------------
<end thread>


--------------------------------
Jane ONeill - Melbourne
cadence at australianskynweather.com

Australian Sky & Weather
http://www.stormchasers.au.com

Australian Severe Weather Assocn (ASWA)
http://www.severeweather.asn.au
--------------------------------






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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

From: "Michael Thompson" <thunder at ozthunder.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 22:33:20 +1100
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It used to actually support a fishery !

Now where those fish hole up during the dry times has me wondering.

If it were 20 to 30 metres deeper it probably would start overflowing into
Mulwaree Ponds or some other river near Goulburn.

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: "Blair Trewin" <blair at earthsci.unimelb.edu.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George


> I thought it was 'supposed' to be connected to a lake somewhere in
> New Zealand :-) (Actually, these legends may really be a manifestation
> of the fact that rainfall in this region is strongly related to
> ENSO, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Lake George tended to be low
> in periods when a lake somewhere in the world that gets more rain
> during El Nino events is high, and vice versa).
>
> Lake George also tends to respond to rainfall anomalies on the
> multi-year timescale. It was very high during the wet periods of
> the mid-70s and late 80s/early 90s. Prior to the last year or so,
> 1982 was the only time since the 60s that it had been completely
> dry (and then only briefly), but I believe it was dry or mostly
> dry for about 15 years in the 20s/30s.
>
> (It's also very sensitive to evaporation; during the last Ice Age it
> was much deeper (20-30 metres) than it is now, despite lower
> rainfall).
>
> In 1982 the ACT Cross Country Club ran a race across it. I'm not
> sure if they have any plans for a repeat performance this year.
>
> Blair
>
> > It neither goes to Mt Gambier of some secret cave. We got Jeff kennet
> > working for us still, and he stole it like he also stole the Grand Prix
off
> > South Australia...LOL (Although with Vic's water supplies as they
> > are...Jeff...where did you exactly put the water???)
> >
> > PaulY
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
> > [mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Michael
> > Thompson
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:54 AM
> > To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> >
> >
> > It's funny you should say that as my first sight of the Lake was as a
young
> > lad in the early 1960's. Similar story except my father said it was
> > connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.
> >
> > Even though I was only 7 or 8 years old I was a keen rock collector and
> > could not see how even then.
> >
> > I suppose people cannot pick long term trends as easily as short ones.
Like
> > Lake George will slowly dry over a number of just slightly dry years,
> > perhaps not even drought years, so they look at the green pastures and
> > wonder where the water went.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Liam Domanski" <gashband at hotmail.com>
> > To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> >
> >
> > > When I lived in Canberra years ago, there used to be a story going
around
> > > how Lake George was connected by an underground cave system to Lach
Ness,
> > > and that there had been monsters spotted cruising the lake!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps they drink all the water some years!
> > >
> > >
> > > Liam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
> > > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:39:48 +0800
> > > >
> > > >"Lake George" is often a misnomer.  Some years, you drive past and
the
> > > >water is almost lapping the main road.  Other years it's as dry as a
> > > >desert.  In between years you might see miles of paddocks with a
puddle
> > > >of water in the far distance.
> > > >I haven't been past in the last 15 years, but I assume since the dust
is
> > > >being lifted that it is dry or almost dry at present.
> > > >
> > > >Phil
> > > ><><
> > > >
> > > >International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
> > > >Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Matthew Smith <tornado at cnn.net.au>
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:18:49 +1100
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >
> > > > > wow!
> > > > > Sounds interesting Michael... I guess raised dust is not something
you
> > > > > would see
> > > > > much of on a lake... would have been a sight to see.
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt Smith
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Was in Canberra yesterday and today and not expecting any real
> > > > > weather did
> > > > > > not take the digital.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bad mistake as around 3.30pm this afternoon was the sight of
> > > > > localised dust
> > > > > > being lifted over the SE corner of Lake George, it was lifted in
> > very
> > > > > sharp
> > > > > > edged sheets and extended perhaps 100m into the air at highest.
> > > > > Looked quite
> > > > > > spectacular, largest would have been about 2kms long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also noted that the hills east of Lake George were very brown
and
> > > > > drought
> > > > > > affected, whilst the range just west is quite green ( in
comparison
> > > > > ). This
> > > > > > was something I noticed two weeks ago on a similar Canberra
trip,  a
> > > > > sudden
> > > > > > greening just south of Goulburn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some virga around 3.15 near Canberra too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
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> >
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > > > >
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> > > >
> >   -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au-----------------------------
> > > > > -
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> > your
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> > >
  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
> > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp
> > >
> > >
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> > >  with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of
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  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > >
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> >
> >
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> >  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
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> >
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>  To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
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>


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From: "Michael Thompson" <thunder at ozthunder.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 22:34:20 +1100
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Thanks for those Links !

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Angell - www.canberra-wx.com" <simon at canberra-wx.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George


> Come across this just now,
> http://www.webone.com.au/~dougsden/lg/lg.htm
> Some nice pics fron OCT 2002 here.
> And these
> http://www.nexus.edu.au/ozprojects/wetlands/lake_george.htm
>
> And this might be of interest to some.
> http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/stories/s118097.htm
> http://image.ce.adfa.edu.au/research/LakeGeorge/web_html.htm
>
> Cheers
> ---------------------------------
> Simon Angell
> Canberra, ACT
> www.canberra-wx.com
> ---------------------------------------------
> Proud member of the
> Australian Severe Weather Association.
> www.severeweather.asn.au
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Yole" <pyole at lexicon.net>
> To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:10 PM
> Subject: RE: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
>
>
> > It neither goes to Mt Gambier of some secret cave. We got Jeff kennet
> > working for us still, and he stole it like he also stole the Grand Prix
> off
> > South Australia...LOL (Although with Vic's water supplies as they
> > are...Jeff...where did you exactly put the water???)
> >
> > PaulY
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
> > [mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Michael
> > Thompson
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:54 AM
> > To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> >
> >
> > It's funny you should say that as my first sight of the Lake was as a
> young
> > lad in the early 1960's. Similar story except my father said it was
> > connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.
> >
> > Even though I was only 7 or 8 years old I was a keen rock collector and
> > could not see how even then.
> >
> > I suppose people cannot pick long term trends as easily as short ones.
> Like
> > Lake George will slowly dry over a number of just slightly dry years,
> > perhaps not even drought years, so they look at the green pastures and
> > wonder where the water went.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Liam Domanski" <gashband at hotmail.com>
> > To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> >
> >
> > > When I lived in Canberra years ago, there used to be a story going
> around
> > > how Lake George was connected by an underground cave system to Lach
> Ness,
> > > and that there had been monsters spotted cruising the lake!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps they drink all the water some years!
> > >
> > >
> > > Liam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
> > > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:39:48 +0800
> > > >
> > > >"Lake George" is often a misnomer.  Some years, you drive past and
the
> > > >water is almost lapping the main road.  Other years it's as dry as a
> > > >desert.  In between years you might see miles of paddocks with a
puddle
> > > >of water in the far distance.
> > > >I haven't been past in the last 15 years, but I assume since the dust
> is
> > > >being lifted that it is dry or almost dry at present.
> > > >
> > > >Phil
> > > ><><
> > > >
> > > >International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
> > > >Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Matthew Smith <tornado at cnn.net.au>
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:18:49 +1100
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >
> > > > > wow!
> > > > > Sounds interesting Michael... I guess raised dust is not something
> you
> > > > > would see
> > > > > much of on a lake... would have been a sight to see.
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt Smith
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Was in Canberra yesterday and today and not expecting any real
> > > > > weather did
> > > > > > not take the digital.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bad mistake as around 3.30pm this afternoon was the sight of
> > > > > localised dust
> > > > > > being lifted over the SE corner of Lake George, it was lifted in
> > very
> > > > > sharp
> > > > > > edged sheets and extended perhaps 100m into the air at highest.
> > > > > Looked quite
> > > > > > spectacular, largest would have been about 2kms long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also noted that the hills east of Lake George were very brown
and
> > > > > drought
> > > > > > affected, whilst the range just west is quite green ( in
> comparison
> > > > > ). This
> > > > > > was something I noticed two weeks ago on a similar Canberra
trip,
> a
> > > > > sudden
> > > > > > greening just south of Goulburn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some virga around 3.15 near Canberra too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > > > Version: 6.0.406 / Virus Database: 229 - Release Date: 21/10/02
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
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body
> of
> > > > > your
> > > > > >  message.
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
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> > > > >  message.
> > > >
> >   -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au-----------------------------
> > > > > -
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> > > >
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> > > >  message.
> > >
>   -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
> > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp
> > >
> > >
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> to:majordomo at world.std.com
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> > >  message.
> >
  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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> >
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> >  with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of
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> >  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
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From: "Michael Thompson" <thunder at ozthunder.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 22:42:04 +1100
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Thanks Jane, that sounds like one interesting book !!

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jane ONeill" <cadence at australianskynweather.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George


> Evening all,
>
> a little light reading about the Lake and the landscape in which it is
> set, taken from the wonderful book "The Face of Australia" Charles F
> Laseron 1957 (3 scanned pages)
>
> http://www.stormchasers.au.com/Archives/lakeg1a.jpg
> http://www.stormchasers.au.com/Archives/lakeg2a.jpg
> http://www.stormchasers.au.com/Archives/lakeg3a.jpg
>
> Jane
>
> --------------------------------
> Jane ONeill - Melbourne
> cadence at australianskynweather.com
>
> Australian Sky & Weather
> http://www.stormchasers.au.com
>
> Australian Severe Weather Assocn (ASWA)
> http://www.severeweather.asn.au
> --------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Thompson" <thunder at ozthunder.com>
> To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:53 PM
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
>
>
> > It's funny you should say that as my first sight of the Lake was as a
> young
> > lad in the early 1960's. Similar story except my father said it was
> > connected to the lake at Mt Gambier in Victoria.
> >
> > Even though I was only 7 or 8 years old I was a keen rock collector
> and
> > could not see how even then.
> >
> > I suppose people cannot pick long term trends as easily as short ones.
> Like
> > Lake George will slowly dry over a number of just slightly dry years,
> > perhaps not even drought years, so they look at the green pastures and
> > wonder where the water went.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Liam Domanski" <gashband at hotmail.com>
> > To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> >
> >
> > > When I lived in Canberra years ago, there used to be a story going
> around
> > > how Lake George was connected by an underground cave system to Lach
> Ness,
> > > and that there had been monsters spotted cruising the lake!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps they drink all the water some years!
> > >
> > >
> > > Liam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
> > > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:39:48 +0800
> > > >
> > > >"Lake George" is often a misnomer.  Some years, you drive past and
> the
> > > >water is almost lapping the main road.  Other years it's as dry as
> a
> > > >desert.  In between years you might see miles of paddocks with a
> puddle
> > > >of water in the far distance.
> > > >I haven't been past in the last 15 years, but I assume since the
> dust is
> > > >being lifted that it is dry or almost dry at present.
> > > >
> > > >Phil
> > > ><><
> > > >
> > > >International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
> > > >Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
> > > >Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Matthew Smith <tornado at cnn.net.au>
> > > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:18:49 +1100
> > > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
> > > >
> > > > > wow!
> > > > > Sounds interesting Michael... I guess raised dust is not
> something you
> > > > > would see
> > > > > much of on a lake... would have been a sight to see.
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt Smith
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Thompson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Was in Canberra yesterday and today and not expecting any real
> > > > > weather did
> > > > > > not take the digital.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bad mistake as around 3.30pm this afternoon was the sight of
> > > > > localised dust
> > > > > > being lifted over the SE corner of Lake George, it was lifted
> in
> > very
> > > > > sharp
> > > > > > edged sheets and extended perhaps 100m into the air at
> highest.
> > > > > Looked quite
> > > > > > spectacular, largest would have been about 2kms long.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also noted that the hills east of Lake George were very brown
> and
> > > > > drought
> > > > > > affected, whilst the range just west is quite green ( in
> comparison
> > > > > ). This
> > > > > > was something I noticed two weeks ago on a similar Canberra
> trip,  a
> > > > > sudden
> > > > > > greening just south of Goulburn.
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From: "John Woodbridge" <jrw at pixelcom.net>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: RE: aus-wx:Tornadoes in Perth
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:50:19 +1000
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Hi all,

Channel 10 late news had some damage footage from weak Tornadoes (coldies)
associated with last nights vigorous frontal passage through Perth.
Significant structural damage occurred in Mt. Pleasant and Thornlie (again)
in narrow strips.

I called up my folks who live in Thornlie.., said it started to rain, then
there was a awesome roaring noise like a line of gravel trucks going past
and a humungous wind that bent all the trees double in different directions.
Lasted only a few minutes then it just rained with normal gusty wind, total
22mm.  Some lightning and distant thunder.   "Never seen anything like it"
said Mum who was looking out the window to see what all the noise was about.

Congratulations to Channel 10 for describing the events as tornadoes and
even managing to completely avoid the "mini" prefix!  (Personally I still
prefer "Cock-eyed bobs", LOL)

John.

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Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 04:18:50 +1000
From: Tim Eckert <timeckert at austarnet.com.au>
Subject: aus-wx: SA STORMS
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
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I have to say I have nice timing. I'm currently 
spending a week working in Adelaide, and have timed 
it well to encounter one of the best storm set-ups in 
Adelaide for probably a couple of years.
No sleep so far for many of us and the sun will be 
soon getting up...
The first line of storms hit Adelaide at approx. 2.30am 
or so - mainly in southern and coastal suburbs. 
Quickly afterwards another lot of storms developed in 
less than 20 minutes to the north of the city to my 
delight. In just 2 radar frames the inital cell went from 
nothing to red just to my north. I recieved small hail 
and severe wind gusts plus numerous close Cgs. I 
hope the photos turn out...
Currently (4.45am) a very nice looking squall line 
stretches from Kangaroo Island to Port Augusta and 
should hit Adelaide within about an hour.
Will update later on... plus I'm sure others will as well.
Regards,
Tim Eckert.
(currently at Elizabeth, Adelaide)
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Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 04:26:15 +1000
From: Tim Eckert <timeckert at austarnet.com.au>
Subject: aus-wx: SA STORMS
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
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Also, an interesting point of note is Adelaide's 
minimum temperature. So far it hasnt gone below 
24.8C and is currently back up to 27.1 at 4.50am 
which I think is almost unheard of... Would be 
interesting to see what the minimum ends up being 
and how far off the November record it is?? From 
memory I think the all time record is about 29 or 30C 
but no idea what November's is?
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Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 07:20:52 +1100
From: Don White <donwhite at ozemail.com.au>
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Time
Adelaide does have hot nights quite often.
It had a min of 29.0 on 2 November 1987; its November record is 30.2 in
1922 all time record 33.5 in Jan 1982.
Don White

Tim Eckert wrote:
> 
> Also, an interesting point of note is Adelaide's
> minimum temperature. So far it hasnt gone below
> 24.8C and is currently back up to 27.1 at 4.50am
> which I think is almost unheard of... Would be
> interesting to see what the minimum ends up being
> and how far off the November record it is?? From
> memory I think the all time record is about 29 or 30C
> but no idea what November's is?
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Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 07:06:27 +1000
From: Tim Eckert <timeckert at austarnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: SA STORMS
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
X-Mailer: Mirapoint Webmail Direct 3.1.0.58-GA
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Thanks Don for that...

The squall line has moved through Adelaide now with 
some great Cg crawlers, mostly dry storms again so i 
hope it doesnt start to many fires.

Tim.


---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 07:20:52 +1100
>From: Don White <donwhite at ozemail.com.au>  
>Subject: Re: aus-wx: SA STORMS  
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>Time
>Adelaide does have hot nights quite often.
>It had a min of 29.0 on 2 November 1987; its 
November record is 30.2 in
>1922 all time record 33.5 in Jan 1982.
>Don White
>
>Tim Eckert wrote:
>> 
>> Also, an interesting point of note is Adelaide's
>> minimum temperature. So far it hasnt gone below
>> 24.8C and is currently back up to 27.1 at 4.50am
>> which I think is almost unheard of... Would be
>> interesting to see what the minimum ends up being
>> and how far off the November record it is?? From
>> memory I think the all time record is about 29 or 
30C
>> but no idea what November's is?
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From: "arky dave" <dajapo at voltage.net>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: OCT 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:54:17 -0600
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
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<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.100" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Greetings from the Natural State:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Heres the weather for Mena, Arkansas for October, 
2002:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana>Avg. High: 66.5F(19.1C)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana>Avg. Low: 50.0F(10.0C)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; High: 
87F(30.5C), Oct. 2</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Low: 
36F(2.2C), Oct. 15</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana>Rain for Month: 8.00IN(203.2mm)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT 
face=Verdana>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
(+2.90IN/+73.6mm)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana>Rain for year: 54.20IN(1,376.6mm)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT 
face=Verdana>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
(+6.90IN/+175.2mm)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We've seen very little sunshine from Oct. 19-31+, 
an unusually long cloudy period, due to an active Subtropical Jet Stream (which 
is actually keeping the very cold air to our north). The fall foliage here is 
starting to look very good. Wish ya'll were here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wishing everyone a Safe and Happy 
November.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yours&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(trying to do a Sun dance) 
David Powell</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>


</x-html>

Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 08:46:02 +0800
From: "Phil Smith" <SmithP at ics.edu.hk>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: preparation for storm chasing ...
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When chasing it is essential to keep track of the time so that you can 
accurately write up your reports later.
It is also essential to bring your laptop with a satellite Internet 
connection to keep up with the latest weather developments.
Now you can save the weight of carrying both a laptop and a wristwatch...
After years of work, computer science graduate students at the
University of Poland have finally finished their Internet-based
digital clock:

http://www.yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html

Phil
<><

International Christian School E-mail: SmithP at ics.edu.hk
Doctor Disk Limited E-mail: phil at drdisk.com.hk
Web-site: http://www.drdisk.com.hk
Weather: http://www.drdisk.com.hk/cyclones.htm

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

X-Originating-IP: [203.109.174.138]
From: "John Roenfeldt" <wa_tornado at hotmail.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx:Tornadoes in Perth
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:49:27 +0800
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
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Channel 7 did a good report here in Perth as well.  They even had some
animated graphics illustrating theyre commentary.  24 houses were damaged.

John Roenfeldt

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Woodbridge" <jrw at pixelcom.net>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:50 PM
Subject: RE: aus-wx:Tornadoes in Perth


> Hi all,
>
> Channel 10 late news had some damage footage from weak Tornadoes (coldies)
> associated with last nights vigorous frontal passage through Perth.
> Significant structural damage occurred in Mt. Pleasant and Thornlie
(again)
> in narrow strips.
>
> I called up my folks who live in Thornlie.., said it started to rain, then
> there was a awesome roaring noise like a line of gravel trucks going past
> and a humungous wind that bent all the trees double in different
directions.
> Lasted only a few minutes then it just rained with normal gusty wind,
total
> 22mm.  Some lightning and distant thunder.   "Never seen anything like it"
> said Mum who was looking out the window to see what all the noise was
about.
>
> Congratulations to Channel 10 for describing the events as tornadoes and
> even managing to completely avoid the "mini" prefix!  (Personally I still
> prefer "Cock-eyed bobs", LOL)
>
> John.
>
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>  To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
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>  message.
>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
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X-Sender: vk3jed-1 at 192.168.15.1
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Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 12:13:55 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: "Tony Langdon (VK3JED)" <vk3jed-1 at optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: preparation for storm chasing ...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com


<x-flowed>
At 08:46 AM 2/11/2002 +0800, you wrote:

>When chasing it is essential to keep track of the time so that you can
>accurately write up your reports later.
>It is also essential to bring your laptop with a satellite Internet
>connection to keep up with the latest weather developments.

Well, I'm working on a way to put some obs (especially storm locations) 
onto the airwaves, so instead of a satellite connection, all you will need 
is a scanning receiver to team up with the laptop, and a bit of free 
software.  No ongoing charges, and being receive only, no licence required.

>Now you can save the weight of carrying both a laptop and a wristwatch...
>After years of work, computer science graduate students at the
>University of Poland have finally finished their Internet-based
>digital clock:


LOL, I like it! :)

73 de Tony, VK3JED
http://vkradio.com

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------


</x-flowed>
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 12:05:06 +1030
From: Richard Albury <ra7167 at chariot.net.au>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: SA STORMS
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com




Tim Eckert wrote:

> I have to say I have nice timing. I'm currently
> spending a week working in Adelaide, and have timed
> it well to encounter one of the best storm set-ups in
> Adelaide for probably a couple of years.
> No sleep so far for many of us and the sun will be
> soon getting up...
> The first line of storms hit Adelaide at approx. 2.30am
> or so - mainly in southern and coastal suburbs.
> Quickly afterwards another lot of storms developed in
> less than 20 minutes to the north of the city to my
> delight. In just 2 radar frames the inital cell went from
> nothing to red just to my north. I recieved small hail
> and severe wind gusts plus numerous close Cgs. I
> hope the photos turn out...
> Currently (4.45am) a very nice looking squall line
> stretches from Kangaroo Island to Port Augusta and
> should hit Adelaide within about an hour.
> Will update later on... plus I'm sure others will as well.
> Regards,
> Tim Eckert.
> (currently at Elizabeth, Adelaide)
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>  message.
>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

Hi :)

Had  two massive thunderstorms pass over me at Kurralta Park early this
morning (02;25) and (03,15 am). The first storm lightning  followed by the
claps of thunder shook my house to the foundations and I lost power for 10
minutes. The storm passed directly overhead heading SE towards Strathalbyn.
The second cell passed NE of me over Pt. Adelaide heading over Para Hills and
points east. I recorded only a trace of rain.

Richard  Kurralta Park.

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From: "twc" <twc at theweather.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: RE: aus-wx: preparation for storm chasing ...
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:28:46 +1100
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Hi Tony, are you thinking of using Packet?
Cheers,
Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
[mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com] On Behalf Of Tony Langdon
(VK3JED)
Sent: Saturday, 2 November 2002 12:14 PM
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: preparation for storm chasing ...


At 08:46 AM 2/11/2002 +0800, you wrote:

>When chasing it is essential to keep track of the time so that you can 
>accurately write up your reports later. It is also essential to bring 
>your laptop with a satellite Internet connection to keep up with the 
>latest weather developments.

Well, I'm working on a way to put some obs (especially storm locations) 
onto the airwaves, so instead of a satellite connection, all you will
need 
is a scanning receiver to team up with the laptop, and a bit of free 
software.  No ongoing charges, and being receive only, no licence
required.

>Now you can save the weight of carrying both a laptop and a 
>wristwatch... After years of work, computer science graduate students 
>at the University of Poland have finally finished their Internet-based 
>digital clock:


LOL, I like it! :)

73 de Tony, VK3JED
http://vkradio.com

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

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From: Blair Trewin <blair at earthsci.unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Lifted Dust over Lake George
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:27:01 +1100 (EST)
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> 
> It used to actually support a fishery !
> 
> Now where those fish hole up during the dry times has me wondering.
> 
> If it were 20 to 30 metres deeper it probably would start overflowing into
> Mulwaree Ponds or some other river near Goulburn.
> 
> Michael
> 

Actually into the Yass catchment at Geary's Gap (SW side), IIRC.

Blair
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X-Sender: vk3jed-1 at 192.168.15.1
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Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 15:17:19 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: "Tony Langdon (VK3JED)" <vk3jed-1 at optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: aus-wx: preparation for storm chasing ...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com


<x-flowed>
At 01:28 PM 2/11/2002 +1100, you wrote:

>Hi Tony, are you thinking of using Packet?

Yeah, more specifically, APRS.  Have to get the TNC hooked up to the radio 
and it'll fire up nicely. :)

APRS is unconnected "broadcast" mode, so it can be monitored easily.

73 de Tony, VK3JED
http://vkradio.com

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Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 15:55:13 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Michael Bath <mbath at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: OCT 2002
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

<x-flowed>
How many rain days did the rain fall on Dave ?

At my location on the NSW North Coast, I recorded 39.0mm on 6 days for Oct, 
almost all of which fell during Sunday 27th. YTD 827.0mm on 102 days. 
Normal for this part of the world from 1 Jan to 31 Oct is about 1600mm, so 
we're only around 50 per cent.  The main storage dam is now at 33 % of 
capacity. It's never been anywhere near this low before.

cheers, Michael


At 05:54 PM 1/11/2002 -0600, you wrote:

>Greetings from the Natural State:
>Heres the weather for Mena, Arkansas for October, 2002:
>
>Avg. High: 66.5F(19.1C)
>Avg. Low: 50.0F(10.0C)
>         High: 87F(30.5C), Oct. 2
>         Low: 36F(2.2C), Oct. 15
>Rain for Month: 8.00IN(203.2mm)
>                      (+2.90IN/+73.6mm)
>Rain for year: 54.20IN(1,376.6mm)
>                      (+6.90IN/+175.2mm)
>We've seen very little sunshine from Oct. 19-31+, an unusually long cloudy 
>period, due to an active Subtropical Jet Stream (which is actually keeping 
>the very cold air to our north). The fall foliage here is starting to look 
>very good. Wish ya'll were here.
>Wishing everyone a Safe and Happy November.
>Yours   (trying to do a Sun dance) David Powell


  ===================================================================
  Michael Bath     mailto:mbath at ozemail.com.au
  McLeans Ridges   co-webmaster:   http://australiasevereweather.com/
  North Coast NSW  webmaster:      http://lightningphotography.com/
  Australia        ASWA president: http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
  ===================================================================

</x-flowed>
From: "David James Powell" <dajapo at voltage.net>
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: OCT 2002
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G'Day Michael: The rain fell on 12 days in 
October. We only need less than a half-inch more 
to assure another year of above normal rainfall. 
(I'll try to do a Raindance for you).
Best(Wet)Wishes   David Powell

> 
> How many rain days did the rain fall on Dave ?
> 
> At my location on the NSW North Coast, I 
recorded 39.0mm on 6 days for Oct, 
> almost all of which fell during Sunday 27th. 
YTD 827.0mm on 102 days. 
> Normal for this part of the world from 1 Jan to 
31 Oct is about 1600mm, so 
> we're only around 50 per cent.  The main 
storage dam is now at 33 % of 
> capacity. It's never been anywhere near this 
low before.
> 
> cheers, Michael
> 
> 
> At 05:54 PM 1/11/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> 
> >Greetings from the Natural State:
> >Heres the weather for Mena, Arkansas for 
October, 2002:
> >
> >Avg. High: 66.5F(19.1C)
> >Avg. Low: 50.0F(10.0C)
> >         High: 87F(30.5C), Oct. 2
> >         Low: 36F(2.2C), Oct. 15
> >Rain for Month: 8.00IN(203.2mm)
> >                      (+2.90IN/+73.6mm)
> >Rain for year: 54.20IN(1,376.6mm)
> >                      (+6.90IN/+175.2mm)
> >We've seen very little sunshine from Oct. 19-
31+, an unusually long cloudy 
> >period, due to an active Subtropical Jet 
Stream (which is actually keeping 
> >the very cold air to our north). The fall 
foliage here is starting to look 
> >very good. Wish ya'll were here.
> >Wishing everyone a Safe and Happy November.
> >Yours   (trying to do a Sun dance) David Powell
> 
> 
>   
==================================================
=================
>   Michael Bath     mailto:mbath at ozemail.com.au
>   McLeans Ridges   co-webmaster:   
http://australiasevereweather.com/
>   North Coast NSW  webmaster:      
http://lightningphotography.com/
>   Australia        ASWA president: 
http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
>   
==================================================
=================
> 
> 

--
Sent using Voltage Net Webmail
http://www.voltage.net/
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From: "Simon Angell - www.canberra-wx.com" <simon at canberra-wx.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: OCT 2002
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 16:32:39 +1100
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I can't recall a decent rain here this month, only the muddy rain a couple
weeks back. i suspect that we didn't recieve the average rain this month,
but we are now into novemeber and interestingly enough in the last 3 years
November is the only month to have above Average rainfall in all 3 years,
hopefully it will continue into a Fourth.

Some intersting rainfall stats happening this year, for YTD (to end
September) we 17.9mm Above average (due to Febuarary's 211mm)
But for March to september we are 104mm Down on average with only 2 months
recording Above average rainfall (1.1mm in June and 5.5mm in Septmeber).
I suspect that October's deficit will all but wipe out any benifit with YTD.
Interesting the Bom Commented on Evaporation earlier this week, we lost over
double the daily expected Evap on 2 consecutive days, with over 12mm evap'd
daily instead of the average 6mm daily.., Just another testimate to El-Nino
and how dry the airmass has been recently.

Today on the other hand although still dry, the Easterly seabreeze came in
Yesterday day evening driving the Dp from -6.5 to 9.0 in 1 hour, bringin
Stratus Cover wind has tended to hang around all day limit max temp below
25C (forecast was 30C) and Dp has remained relativly steady around 9C, there
is a slight Possibiltiy of Some precip and Thunder tonight/Sun Morning but
im not getting my hope up too much.

Cheers
---------------------------------
Simon Angell
Canberra, ACT
www.canberra-wx.com
---------------------------------------------
Proud member of the
Australian Severe Weather Association.
www.severeweather.asn.au
--------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bath" <mbath at ozemail.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: OCT 2002


> How many rain days did the rain fall on Dave ?
>
> At my location on the NSW North Coast, I recorded 39.0mm on 6 days for
Oct,
> almost all of which fell during Sunday 27th. YTD 827.0mm on 102 days.
> Normal for this part of the world from 1 Jan to 31 Oct is about 1600mm, so
> we're only around 50 per cent.  The main storage dam is now at 33 % of
> capacity. It's never been anywhere near this low before.
>
> cheers, Michael
>
>
> At 05:54 PM 1/11/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >Greetings from the Natural State:
> >Heres the weather for Mena, Arkansas for October, 2002:
> >
> >Avg. High: 66.5F(19.1C)
> >Avg. Low: 50.0F(10.0C)
> >         High: 87F(30.5C), Oct. 2
> >         Low: 36F(2.2C), Oct. 15
> >Rain for Month: 8.00IN(203.2mm)
> >                      (+2.90IN/+73.6mm)
> >Rain for year: 54.20IN(1,376.6mm)
> >                      (+6.90IN/+175.2mm)
> >We'v