Author Topic: Discussion - Is there a SW to NE Storm path through Western Sydney?  (Read 12935 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Harley Pearman

  • Barrel tornado F4
  • *
  • Posts: 584
Hello

Is there a SW to NE Storm path through Western Sydney?

Reading through the forum, I have noted that this topic has not been covered too well. Since moving to Sydney in 1997, I noted on two occasions being 3/11/2000 and 16/2/2002 two particular thunderstorms that moved up from the SW causing significant property damage across western Sydney. They were both severe thunderstorms or supercells. They moved in a NE direction taking roughly the same path.

Recently, I have come across a saying being 'The Oaks to Dee Why Supercell or storm Path". I have found evidence and material on it and I would like to open up a discussion thread on this to find out what the views are to see if this is true.

Researching this topic, I have found a summary of these storms going back to 1947 (As best as possible) but concentrating on the most damaging of all storms.

1) 1 January 1947 - A storm moves in a NE direction from SW Sydney. Hail was around 8 cm and damage was 3 million pounds (Equated to $47 million in today's currency). 100 were injured. There was property damage in the CBD.

2) 9 November 1976. A thunderstorm causes $131 million damage. 10 people are injured. Hail the size of golf balls and winds of 96 km/ h hits large areas of western Sydney moving in a NE direction.

3) 10 February 1978. A thunderstorm moves in a NE direction leaving 8 people injured. Winds reach 141 km / h. A tornado is reported in the Drummoyne and Hunters Hill area. Damage bill tops $44 million.

4) 3 October 1986. A thunderstorm drops 6 cm hail over suburbs of western Sydney and 10 people are injured. The damage bill tops $161 million.

5) 18 March 1990. A thunderstorm moves from a SW direction to NE dropping 8 cm hail. Liverpool, Bass Hill, Auburn are hardest hit. The hail swathe stretches from Camden to Narrabean. Severe damage to 14,000 homes, 9,000 vehicles and winds of 109 km / h over Bankstown. Damage is around $384 million.

6) 21 January 1991. Another thunderstorm moves from a SW direction to NE leaving 100 injured and a fatality. Hail 7 cm. Power loss to 164,000 homes and winds anywhere from 118 km / h to 230 km / h. Damage estimates range from $226 million but I have seen reports suggesting it was up to $680 million.

7) 12 February 1992. A thunderstorm drops 7.5 cm hail over western Sydney from Toongabbie to Girraween which indicates a NE direction. Some 3,000 homes and 7,000 vehicles damaged. Damage was $118 million.

8) 28 October 1995. A thunderstorm moves from SW to NE dropping hail at Cobbitty, 6.3 cm at Theresa Park and 4.5 CM at Parramatta.  A study later undertaken by Sandra and Russell shows that the damage ellipse was 10 x 25 kilometres through Western Sydney and the preferred damage path was to the left side of the storm path (Left moving away from someone but to the right if moving towards someone).

9) 3 November 2000. A tornadic thunderstorm tracks from SW to NE bringing 7 cm hail. I have seen damage loses in the order of $250 million.

10) 16 February 2002. A thunderstorm tracks from SW to NE (Same path) bringing hail up to 6 cm. There were some 8,000 requests for help. I have seen damage bills around $280 million.

This history goes back as far as there are records that I can possibly find. If there are more, then I cannot find them despite extensive research. There are 10 known events since 1947 that I can find and 9 such events since 1976.

Given that until 2008 (32 years) from 1976, it does suggest an average return frequency of around 3.55 to 3.6 years specific for these big damaging storms events.

Looking at available radar images provided by the Bureau of Meteorology and historical analysis, they all seem to start in SW Sydney, track through a certain path through western Sydney and then track NE. That places certain suburbs in the firing line such as Liverpool, Fairfield and Parramatta.

In a study by Sandra S Schuster (2005) she has found evidence that from 1791 to 2003 there had been 1,570 storms in Sydney that has produced hail and the average hailstone is around 3.8 to 4 cm (Rather large) but most occur between 3 pm and 7 pm.

When looking at these thunderstorms heading from SW to NE, many seem to produce large hail around 6 to 8 cm in size at somepoint during their lifetime. The damage path always seem to be over the urban areas. Thus what is going on and why?

A stormy Sydney Forecast - October 2005:

Computer modelling by the Macquarie University physical geographers suggests that the removal of the natural vegetation from Sydney's SW over the past 200 years may have affected the weather patterns creating more dangerous thunderstorms (Specific to severe thunderstorms and supercells).

Professor Andy Pittman and Anna Gero have suggested that the basin could experience more of the extreme thunderstorms in coming years because of changes in land use patterns in the landscape in SW and western Sydney.

It is found that the clearing of land for agriculture and then housing has already had an impact on weather patterns. There are fewer trees to impede the storms progress in areas that have been cleared. Storms which brew over the SW do move NE across the city (Across an urban corridor). They travel towards the city significantly faster than storms originating in other areas.

Unstable conditions and convection are created as sea breezes moving across a landscape smoothed by clearing were able to accelerate.

With a majority of storms, there is no impact however, storms moving from the SW to NE across the city are accelerated (Professor Pittman 2005). Urban surfaces are capable of altering natural weather systems through the urban heat island effect (Parramatta City Centre also has a role in this).

Researchers created a virtual city in the computers (modelling) to represent Sydney's CBD. An intense convective storm occurred that did not occur under natural land cover conditions (vegetated areas).

Storms triggered by cold fronts did not respond to changes in land surfaces. Local convective storms such as those that occur in Sydney (Summer afternoons and evenings) have been found to be highly sensitive to the triggering mechanism associated with land surfaces.

The evidence is emerging to suggest that the urban heat island effect has a role to play as well. Reading a paper from Sciencedirect "The impact of land cover change on Storms in the Sydney Basin" 30 June 2006, it is found that:-

a) Storms travelling over the smoother agricultural land in SW Sydney experience an increase in velocity and in a special case, the dense urban surfaces of Sydney's city core appears to trigger an intense convective storm.

b) Parramatta City Centre has also been found to aid in the development of a more intense convective storm through the heat island effect.

More and more evidence is emerging that urban areas alter climate and can help to intensify a thunderstorm through the urban heat island effect. Studies by Balling and Burian (1987), Jauregui and Romales (1996) and others have shown that urban areas can influence storm initiation, intensity and motion.

Under certain conditions, a sea breeze will dictate the location of a storm cell and initiation and its travel path.

In Sydney, the basin is relatively flat, bounded to the north, west and south (To some extent the east) by hills which creates enough relief for a basin. Sydney is found to be frequented by storms during spring and summer (usually early afternoon to early evening).

Computer models have been used for SW triggered storms, frontal storms and isolated convective storms.

Incredibly from the numerous computer models, it is found that a storm initiating in SW Sydney travel over agricultural regions in their youth but as it does so, horizontal velocity is increased due to the presence of smoother surfaces. These storms do in fact travel NE. Strong winds, downdrafts and very heavy rain occurs but the storm moves at a rapid pace (Nothing to slow them). The cloud cell accelerates and there is less surface drag being exerted on the flow allowing winds to pass unimpeded. This type of storm is likely to cause the big damage claims (As highlighted early in this post).

Isolated convective storms:

These storms are relatively common in Sydney. These are isolated convective cells that are sensitive to inland propagation of the sea breeze. Instability is usually greater over the inland area than coastal areas.

The triggering mechanism for this storm is related to the dynamics forced by the sea breeze front. These are a typical layer convergence line where the convergence of advancing low level moisture advected inland by the sea breeze provides uplift and additional low level moisture capable of transporting warm humid air high into the atmosphere leading to a thunderstorm. Wind shear, buoyancy, moisture depth and strength of the convergence also contributes.

Storms in the isolated convective storm category are highly sensitive to the triggering mechanism which is associated with an advancing sea breeze and the convergence of moisture occurring at its leading edge.

The models in the study show the sea breeze late in the day across much of Sydney's eastern areas but the western areas remain unaffected by the sea breeze.

It seems that the two go hand in hand being the Heat island effect and the position of the sea breeze. In addition, it is also found that land surfaces in western Sydney is 0.6 C warmer than natural surfaces averaged for pre storm simulations.

It appears that exceptional conditions (With the above two in mind) are required for this thunderstorm (Being a severe thunderstorm or supercell for western Sydney). Historically, only 1 such storm per season is documented in any given season.

When does it occur:

Looking at records (I have gone back as far as possible to 1947 and can only find 10 such damaging storms on western Sydney) emanating from the SW portion of Sydney from the Oaks region or nearby areas. (This discusion should exclude the 1999 event, 2003 event and 2007 event as the storms were on separate pathways). I cannot find any record between 1947 and 1970 or earlier records. There are records from 1970 onwards with the first documented one in 1976. If this was used as a base date then since 1976, there have been 9 such storms giving an average return frequency of 3.55 years.

However, interestingly, looking at when they occur, I bought a book called Extreme Weather by H Michael Mogil 2007 which shows all the La Nina and El Nino years from 1950. When plotted against this, it does suggest that such a thunderstorm in Sydney (Being a damaging severe storm or supercell from the SW to NE) strikes towards the end of a La Nina event or as the Southern Oscillation is tending towards a neutral pattern.

We are now moving into a post La Nina phase of the ENSO cycle which provides some food for thought. Could this storm path fire a damaging supercell this upcoming spring or summer??

Any thoughts and discussion on this topic.

Sources

Bureau of Meteorology (Archives and records 1970 - 2008).
Extreme Weather H Michael Mogil, 2007.
The Impact of Land Cover Change on Storms in the Sydney Basin (Macquarie University 2006).
Macquarie University (2005).
A Stormy Sydney Forecast (Lyn Danninger 2005).
Sandra Schuster (2005).
Spillane and Dixon (1969).


Harley Pearman

Offline Jimmy Deguara

  • Australian and Tornado Alley storm chaser
  • Administrator
  • Wedge tornado F5
  • *
  • Posts: 2,218
  • Gender: Male
  • Storm Chaser since 1993, Tornado Alley 2001
    • Australia Severe Weather
Hi Harley,

Given I have little time to invest in this discussion, I cannot elaborate as much I could normally. I think many of the comments made in your post including references are questionable. I think we must be careful in making statements without incorporating current severe storm research. The climatological arguments mentioned above - unless they were misquoted - are very weak in providing sound evidence as to whether severe storms have become more frequent in recent years for the reasons such as heat island and loss of vegetation. I would have anticipated with more vegetation over the southwestern suburbs, that the heat island effect would have an impact further down wind of the "heat island". Have coastal suburbs suffered more severe weather events downwind from Parramatta?

The data provided even for a climatological study seems statistically insignificant one would think? I would say that you would require thousands of thunderstorms before making a reasonable conclusion.

I think the main reasons as to why storms through Sydney are more prevelant from the southwest relates storm initiation and the prevailing conditions on the day. When storms persist for extended periods of time as they do in terms of days where conditions are favourable for supercells, multicell clusters and squall lines, then perhaps there could be other reasons why storms may be particularly severe and long lived creating major damage. From experience of chasing in the United States, existing boundaries including the sea breeze and their alignment is extremely important:

- in enhancing storm development

- and longetivity

The installation of doppler radar has already made observing such boundaries in the Sydney region possible and their impact on storm behaviour. Can a study be done in trying to simulate previous significant storm events? Not sure but I would assume that boundaries contributed in many of these events you mention above.

There is another aspect to consider: the alignment of the coastline and the topography. With a prevailing northeast airstream or sea breeze on severe weather days, the topography assists in enhancing uplift over the southwestern suburbs. The alignment of the coastline being north-northeast also allows for a significantly longer path length and time for storms to intensify before drifting off the coast.

Regards,

Jimmy Deguara
-------------------------------------
Australian Severe Weather
www.australiasevereweather.com

Australian Thunderbolt Tours
www.thunderbolttours.com

Phone  0408 020468  (International :  61  2  408 020468)

Offline Harley Pearman

  • Barrel tornado F4
  • *
  • Posts: 584
Jimmy

Thank you. This has been a topic that I would like to discover more about given the unusual behaviour of a couple of exceptional storms I experienced in 2000 and again in 2002 that I had never experienced or seen previously.

I have started to look at this given that I have come across the term "The Oaks to Dee Why storm path".

As for the studies of whether severe storms across Sydney's east have been increasing. Unfortunately, I have found no data or studies and what I have found has suggested that this is an area that is open to research. Unfortunately, I cannot answer the question.

There have been studies done on computers by Macquarie University as to the behaviour of convective storms over or near the city centre. I will find them and post here. Quite interesting.

Partially, studies of storms and their impacts have started to focus on Sydney with references to the western and SW areas. IAG Insurance briefly raised it at the Planning Institute of Australia Conference April 14 - 16, 2008 due to the planned urban expansion in SW Sydney.

This is a topic that has interested me for a while but have not been able to find much until now. I will provide further posts as I find more about it.

Again, thank you for helping me.

Harley Pearman

Offline Richary

  • Barrel tornado F4
  • *
  • Posts: 680
  • Gender: Male
I remember years ago people commenting that some storms seemed to follow the "ironstone ridges" as they were described such as Padstow/Peakhurst/Kogarah/Rockdale. Whether any research had gone into this or it was anectodal I don't know. Castle Hill seems to cop a few big ones, while the most severe cells seem to skirt either east or west of here at Rydalmere.

On a side topic but related, storms in Adelaide also followed the hills, with them much more frequent along the ranges to the south of the city then to the east.

Very few storms came across the plains in the 5 years I was there, unless they were blown in by a WNW change. I realise from the point of view of CGs an area a few hundred metres higher is that much closer to the cloud therefore the charge that needs to build up before a strike occurs is less; but the rainfall and intra cloud strikes also followed this pattern.

Offline Peter J

  • Stove pipe F3
  • *
  • Posts: 419
  • Gender: Male
  • Lets go get em boys!
a side note: in Vic, the old NW to SE pattern for storms does still occur in the warmer months, then in winter months the pattern changes to SW to NE (like in NSW).

big pete

PJJ

Offline Jimmy Deguara

  • Australian and Tornado Alley storm chaser
  • Administrator
  • Wedge tornado F5
  • *
  • Posts: 2,218
  • Gender: Male
  • Storm Chaser since 1993, Tornado Alley 2001
    • Australia Severe Weather
Hi guys,

Harley, yes I understand that the studies done have been rather limited but I guess the use of doppler radar has been relatively recent and perhaps also kept in house? Nevertheless, I understand the climatological studies of the data presented. It is the reasoning as to this impact is what I was alluding to. If a storm pases SW to NE so be it - observationally, we have that evidence no doubt.

and Richary:

Quote
I remember years ago people commenting that some storms seemed to follow the "ironstone ridges" as they were described such as Padstow/Peakhurst/Kogarah/Rockdale. Whether any research had gone into this or it was anectodal I don't know. Castle Hill seems to cop a few big ones, while the most severe cells seem to skirt either east or west of here at Rydalmere.


Yes I heard this for Blacktown based on some savage events that had occurred perhaps in the 1970s and 1960s. Then there was a relative lull in the late 1990's. Now the recent hailstorm in December followed by a few more that caused hassles for the victims. What theories are going to be copped up this time.  The good ole yarns are developed by those not in the know and passed to others. It sounds good so it must be factual hmmm.

I believe that boundaries are the answer to many of the behaviours experienced here.

Regards,

Jimmy Deguara
-------------------------------------
Australian Severe Weather
www.australiasevereweather.com

Australian Thunderbolt Tours
www.thunderbolttours.com

Phone  0408 020468  (International :  61  2  408 020468)

Offline Michael Bath

  • storm chaser
  • Administrator
  • Wedge tornado F5
  • *
  • Posts: 1,602
  • Gender: Male
    • Australian Severe Weather

There is another aspect to consider: the alignment of the coastline and the topography. With a prevailing northeast airstream or sea breeze on severe weather days, the topography assists in enhancing uplift over the southwestern suburbs. The alignment of the coastline being north-northeast also allows for a significantly longer path length and time for storms to intensify before drifting off the coast.


This is one key and the same reason why there are common tracks in the Northern Rivers as well:  the alignment of high ground relative to the coastline and prevailing wind shear.  Have a look at this Google map - the high ground ends abruptly along an almost N-S line.

It does not take much for storms kicking off on the high ground to move into the western suburbs and continue on fairly long tracks.

Location: Mcleans Ridges, NSW Northern Rivers
Australian Severe Weather:   http://australiasevereweather.com/
Lightning Photography:   http://www.lightningphotography.com/
Early Warning Network: http://www.ewn.com.au
Contact: Michael Bath

Offline Jimmy Deguara

  • Australian and Tornado Alley storm chaser
  • Administrator
  • Wedge tornado F5
  • *
  • Posts: 2,218
  • Gender: Male
  • Storm Chaser since 1993, Tornado Alley 2001
    • Australia Severe Weather
Harley,

For many years I have taken an interest in "storm paths across Sydney".

I would have thought and probably agreed more that region from Liverpool to Bankstown to Auburn and so forth had a higher probability of getting hit by thunderstorms of significance including very large hailstones and flashflooding.

Each season though and sometimes in periods of a few years to a decade I note there is a dominance of particular regions to experience significant severe weather events. Perhaps that has to do with the synoptic conditions that also dominate in particular years.

The issue here though is that once a thunderstorm develops and moves "randomly" downwind - what happens in the pre-storm environment? The storm is dynamical and changing even as a supercell and can taken on various levels of intensity throughout its life cycle. I am pretty sure that both boundaries and the topographical features and their impact on airflow play a significant role in the evolution of the storm. Urban island effects and vegetation in my opinion would play mimimal roles in comparison.

Regards,

Jimmy Deguara
-------------------------------------
Australian Severe Weather
www.australiasevereweather.com

Australian Thunderbolt Tours
www.thunderbolttours.com

Phone  0408 020468  (International :  61  2  408 020468)